NUREMBERG: A WWII Psychiatrist Finds Fascism's Long-Running Thread (Ep. 79)

November 2025 marks the 80th anniversary of the Nuremberg Trials in Germany at the end of World War II. In episode 79 Michon and Taquiena Boston aka The Boston Sisters talk with award-winning journalist and author Jack El-Hai about the James Vanderbilt film NUREMBERG based on El-Hai's thought-provoking book, "The Nazi and the Psychiatrist. "

Jack El-Hai’s book and the film explore the psychological dynamics between Nazi second-in-command Hermann Göring (Russell Crowe) and American psychiatrist Dr. Douglas M. Kelley (Rami Malek). The book and film delve into the nature of evil, the Nuremberg trials, and Dr. Kelley’s findings from his examinations of the Nazi prisoners that raise questions about the potential for fascism in any and every society. The discussion also touches on the importance of understanding historical events and the role of popular history in reflecting on the present.

After their conversation with Jack El-Hai, Michon and Taquiena share their thoughts about “The Nazi and the Psychiatrist,” and NUREMBERG.

Spoiler alert: Key moments in the story of the 1945 Nuremberg Trials, and Dr. Douglas M. Kelley’s story, as seen in the film NUREMBERG, are shared in this podcast.

ADVISORY: Be advised, the history discussed in this podcast includes themes of suicide. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988, or visit their website (988lifeline.org).

TIMESTAMPS

0:03 - Intro and Overview of Podcast

2:34 - Jack El-Hai background journalistic accomplishments

4:11 - THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST Book and NUREMBERG Film Synopsis

9:10 - Personal Impact of Writing THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST

13:58 - Hermann Göring's and Dr. Douglas Kelley's Relationship

18:51 - NUREMBERG From Page to Screen

25:24 - Generic Podcast Break

25:59 - Historical Context and Psychological Evaluations of Nuremberg Prisoners

29:17 - Use of Rorschach tests

30:04 - Competing Perspectives and Roles of Key Figure

41:13 - Legacy and Relevance of Dr. Kelley's Work

45:18 - Popular History and Its Role in Understanding the Past

48:45 - The Nature of Evil and Fascism

56:32 - Final Thoughts on NUREMBERG Film and THE NAZI AND THE PSYCHIATRIST (Michon and Taquiena)

1:04:52 - Recommendations

1:06:10 - Disclaimer

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