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You've probably felt it lately…that low-grade frustration of watching a conversation that's supposed to go somewhere, go nowhere.

Whether it's a congressional hearing, a leadership meeting, or a dinner table debate, there's a particular kind of disorienting feeling when the people in charge seem most skilled at not actually saying anything.

Language expands, but meaning contracts.

Lots of words, lots of volume — but what's really being communicated? And more importantly: what do you do when what someone says and what they do are two completely different things?

The truth is: leadership behaviors are rarely random. They're almost always the expression of an underlying belief about power.

When we understand the kind of power someone is operating from, we stop getting pulled into reactive cycles. And we can stay focused on building the kind of structures that create real, lasting progress.

This week, Karlee revisits one of the most foundational episodes of the show, originally recorded in 2020, but perhaps even more essential right now. She unpacks the 4 types of power operating all around us, and invites us to ask not just what kind of leadership we're witnessing — but what kind we're inhabiting.

In this episode, you’ll learn that real leadership is about bringing out the potential in people, not hoarding power at the top. The more we share power, the greater it becomes. And whether you've been lifted up by a great leader or are currently weathering an ineffective one, this episode is a reminder that we deserve to be nourished by the structures we're part of, not diminished by them.

If you’re ready to see beneath the surface of the power dynamics in your workplace, your community, and your politics, and choose how you want to respond, then this episode is for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (6:32) What leadership actually means and why it's a responsibility, not a rank
• (9:26) The purpose of your power: what you're really building when you claim it
• (13:24) The 4 types of power - and which one is quietly running the room you're in
• (15:52) What happens when leaders believe power is scarce
• (25:07) The Godzilla Effect: how to know what to trust when someone's words and actions aren't lining up

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

Buildings and Bridges by Ani DiFranco

Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts. by Brené Brown

Real Teams Win: What Smart Leaders Need to Know Now About Achieving Peak Performance by Thomas L. Steding

The Purpose of Power: How We Come Together When We Fall Apart by Alicia Garza

Black Lives Matter

Lady Don't Take No Podcast with Alicia Garza

People Mentioned In This Episode:

Maria Sirois

Brené Brown

Tom Steding

Alicia Garza

Use the “Text Karlee” option above to send your Aud

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

"Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it."

Mary Oliver wrote those words, and they've become something like a quiet compass for meaningful work. A reminder to stay awake to what's here, let it move you, and share what you notice.

This week marks episode 200 of Messy & Magnificent—24 seasons, over six years, hundreds of conversations held between us. And what Karlee keeps noticing isn't just that the podcast has continued, but how.

Most of us don't walk away from what matters because we stop caring. We walk away because the way we're trying to stay has become unsustainable.

Staying with something that matters isn't about willpower. It's about creating conditions that make staying possible.

This week, Karlee shares three specific practices that have made staying with the podcast possible, and the practices that are helping leaders stay with what matters to them, too. This milestone is less celebration, more reflection. Less confetti, more candlelight. It's a pause at the threshold to notice what actually makes it possible to keep showing up for work that matters without burning yourself down in the process.

In this episode, you’ll learn why reaching out for support isn't a sign of weakness but a strategic move that turns mountains back into molehills. You’ll hear how giving your projects permission to evolve (rather than forcing them to stay the same or scrapping them entirely) creates the breathing room that makes long arcs possible, and why small, consistent progress beats perfection every time when it comes to staying engaged with meaningful work.

If you’re ready to explore what makes staying with something meaningful feel possible instead of heroic, then this is the episode for you.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (5:15) When asking for help becomes the next right step
• (11:30) How permission to evolve protects what matters most
• (14:45) What NASA's Mars Rover teaches us about adaptation
• (17:20) Why consistency matters more than perfection
• (22:45) The conditions that make long arcs possible

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Book: The Progress Principle: Using Small Wins to Ignite Joy, Engagement, and Creativity at Work by Teresa Amabile & Steven J. Kramer

Article: Amabile, Teresa & Kramer, Steven. "The Power of Small Wins." Harvard Business Review (2011)

Research: Edmondson, Amy C. "Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams." Administrative Science Quarterly (1999)

Book: The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth by Amy Edmondson, Wiley (2018)

Article: "Why Flexibility Is Key in Modern Project Management." Agile Business Consortium

Poem: Oliver, Mary. "Sometimes"

Connect With Karlee:

Website

🌟 Click to Send Karlee a Text - We Want To Hear Your Thoughts About This Episode 🌟

Do you regularly you reach for your phone to reply to messages or emails that could wait? Commit to things before you've even felt out whether it's a true yes? Try to keep up with a kind of momentum that you didn’t create?

When the world around us feels compressed and urgent, a subtle kind of imbalance happens. We tend to match its pace without realizing we've made that choice.

We lose our footing. We compress our days, shorten our response times, and mistake busyness for progress—all while telling ourselves this is what responsibility looks like.

Sometimes that sense of urgency we feel comes dressed up as responsibility. But the underlying truth is that we’re being led by fear.

This week, Karlee reflects on what she's been noticing in herself and in the leaders she works with: the creep of false urgency and what gets lost when we mistake speed for competence.

In this episode, you'll learn how to distinguish between real urgency and inherited momentum, why the strongest leaders aren't always the fastest responders, and how to rebuild your sense of authority when everything around you feels like it's moving too quickly.

If this sense of having to respond quickly and fast and perfectly is not quite working for you and what you're craving is more clarity than chaos, this is the episode for you..

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• (7:18) What gets lost when we move too fast
• (12:35) Why the best teams follow leaders who ask questions
• (15:20) A simple practice for breaking the urgency cycle in real time
• (17:45) The shift that lets you stop proving and start leading from your own values
• (20:15) Why rest isn't something you earn

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

ENROLL: The Heroic Leadership Journey

People Mentioned in this Episode:

Maria Sirois

Heather Cox Richardson

Amy Edmondson

Citations:

Edmondson, A. C.
Edmondson, A. C. (2018). The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth. Wiley.
Edmondson, A. C. (1999). Psychological safety and learning behavior in work teams. Administrative Science Quarterly, 44(2), 350–383.

Ericsson, A., Pool, R., & Coyle, D.
Ericsson, A., & Pool, R. (2016). Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.

Damasio, A. R.
Damasio, A. R. (1994). Descartes’ Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain. Putnam.

Kegan, R., & Lahey, L. L.
Kegan, R., & Lahey, L. L. (2009). Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization. Harvard Business Press.

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Messy and Magnificent is produced by the folx at Ginni Media.