Marketing UnLearned Podcast Por Ian Jindal arte de portada

Marketing UnLearned

Marketing UnLearned

De: Ian Jindal
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Marketing UnLearned explores the challenges the leading-edge digital marketing poses to established and received wisdom. All new initiatives, until proven, are subject to scrutiny and challenge: the ‘waddabouts’, the statements of inertia, the “why bother?”, the deprioritising questions. Within these challenges there is often a grain of truth, but in this series we’ll take the challenges head on and learn how the exemplars deliver persuasively - perhaps changing our thinking along the way. In partnership with Epsilon our first series will focus on innovation in the areas of retail media, digital advertising, CRM, and personalisation. We’ll speak with 10 expert practitioners who have moved beyond the optimised and well-know digital marketing processes. More than a simple ‘always sunny at 30,000ft’ case study, we’ll put the challenges to our guests and hear how they were overcome, how their thinking developed and learn about the ‘new state of the art’. While we may UnLearn some pieces of accepted wisdom, we’ll replace them with new, effective learning. Everyone wins with Marketing UnLearned.© RetailX 2025 Economía Gestión Gestión y Liderazgo Marketing Marketing y Ventas
Episodios
  • "Beyond Monetisation" - Alex Knapman of Halfords

    "Beyond Monetisation" - Alex Knapman of Halfords
    Mar 24 2026
    In this Marketing Un:Learned conversation, retail media specialist Alex Knapman explores what happens when “free money” ad revenue collides with the realities of customer experience, brand identity and measurement. Drawing on hands‑on work with grocers, discounters and Halfords, Alex shows how retail media forces marketers to unlearn old distinctions between online and in‑store, between segments and audiences, and between short‑term monetisation and long‑term brand health. What you’ll learn / relearnUnlearn the idea that retail media is simply a high‑margin bolt‑on and relearn how to start from first principles: are you optimising for monetisation, customer experience, incremental sales, or a deliberate mix of the three?Unlearn the reflex that “ads ruin CX” and relearn how relevant placements and funded content can actually outperform your “organic” merchandising and educationUnlearn channel‑first rollout plans and relearn identity‑first design: what does your brand stand for and what kind of ad experience coheres with thatUnlearn the online/in‑store divide and relearn how loyalty data, sensors and gaze mapping can make physical space more measurable and responsive than many marketers realiseUnlearn flat segmentation and relearn “audiences” as portable, privacy‑safe assets you can activate across TV, CTV and socialUnlearn simplistic, siloed metrics and relearn stitched‑together measurement that links in‑aisle attention, loyalty IDs and off‑site performance.Some ideas in this podcast...1. From “free money” to first‑principlesAlex argues you have to start with the fundamental question: are you launching retail media to monetise, to improve customer experience, to drive RSV (retail sales value), or some intentional combination of all three.That answer determines everything from how you design campaigns and products, to how you reinvest margin – whether in subsidised prices or new tech that improves the customer experience at a macro level.2. Unlearning “ads ruin CX”Consumers rarely say “more ads” when asked what will improve their shopping experience, so retail media teams can start from a defensive crouch.Alex distinguishes between intrusive, cluttered formats that get in the way and seamless placements that simply feel like better merchandising.He shares examples where the ad algorithm, powered by loyalty data, surfaces more relevant products (such as coffee pods rather than beans for a capsule‑machine user) than the standard merchandising rules.He also points to supplier‑funded educational content – such as Halfords’ how‑to videos on fitting wiper blades or changing oil – where funding improves production quality while still leaving choice firmly with the consumer.3. Identity‑first: ads that fit who you areNot all retailers should approach retail media in the same way; your identity dictates what’s acceptable in CX termsA super‑luxury brand must be extremely careful with ad formats and placements because anything that feels “ad‑y” or cluttered is jarring and off‑brandBy contrast, a budget airline or value retailer may credibly offer a proposition like “see an ad, save £5 on your flight,” and some customers will gladly trade a bit of clunkiness for lower pricesThe unlearning here is to stop treating retail media as a generic toolkit and instead design an ad experience that expresses your brand, not undermines it.4. Online vs in‑store: unlearning the divideHistorically, on‑site ecommerce was seen as hyper‑addressable and measurable, while in‑store activity was stuck with coarse measures like linear shelf centimetres and raw footfallAlex reframes this: stores are still one‑to‑many environments, but increasingly equipped with digital inventory such as screens that can be day‑parted and weather‑responsive – breakfast missions in the morning, heat‑wave ice cream creative in summerLoyalty programmes (Alex cites Tesco’s Clubcard penetration) close much of the gap by linking in‑store transactions back to identifiable shoppersCombined with footfall analytics and anonymised gaze mapping that turns CCTV into stick‑figure attention data, retailers can now see who walked an aisle, who looked at a message, and who then bought – even if the individual remains privacy‑protected.5. From “segments” to portable “audiences”Retailers have long used segments to help with ranging, merchandising and store stocking – inward‑facing decisions about their own businessThe growth of retail media allows those segments to become audiences that can be activated in third‑party environments, from Channel 4 or ITVX to social platforms like TikTok and InstagramExamples include audiences of “bought product X in the last 90 days,” “lapsed from category Y,” or “cat owners,” all created in hashed, encrypted, GDPR‑compliant waysFor a category like cat food, the value of targeting verified ...
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    43 m
  • "Innovation never sleeps" - Karl Gibbons of SharkNinja

    "Innovation never sleeps" - Karl Gibbons of SharkNinja
    Feb 9 2026
    In this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal talks with Karl Gibbons, who leads sales strategy and analytics across Northern Europe for SharkNinja — the company behind two of the most disruptive consumer brands in small domestic appliances: Shark and Ninja. Karl brings a career built in FMCG food (most recently in butter and margarine) to a business that launches approximately 25 new products a year across 38 subcategories. The conversation explores what Karl has had to unlearn about pace, innovation cycles, brand building and channel strategy — and what he brought with him that still holds.About the GuestKarl Gibbons is Sales Strategy & Analytics Director for Northern Europe at SharkNinja, responsible for driving profitable category growth across the Shark and Ninja brands in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland. Before joining SharkNinja just over a year ago, Karl spent the majority of his career in food — most recently in the butter and margarine category — giving him a sharp perspective on the differences between true fast-moving consumer goods and the relentless innovation cycle of consumer electronics.Episode Outline & Key TopicsIntroducing Shark and Ninja — two brands, one innovation engine[00:00]Karl explains how Shark (famous for vacuum cleaners, now expanding into beauty and home environment) and Ninja (known for bringing the air fryer to the UK mainstream, now spanning espresso machines, ice cream makers and pizza ovens) sit as separate brands under one company. Innovation is the connective tissue — SharkNinja runs a 24/7 global design cycle across teams in Shanghai, London and Boston, so "innovation never sleeps."Consumers as brand ambassadors — and why that isn't glib[07:00]Ian pushes back on Karl's claim that consumers are SharkNinja's greatest brand ambassadors. Karl responds with the Ninja CREAMi launch: an ice cream maker that generated a wave of organic user-generated content on TikTok and Instagram within 48 hours — with virtually no paid media support. Consumers discovered capabilities the engineers hadn't anticipated, and the five-star review culture feeds directly into product iteration.Signal vs. noise — managing data across 170+ retail partners[10:00]Ian challenges the "spontaneous eruption" narrative, pointing to SharkNinja's 170+ global retail partners, multiple marketplaces and direct-to-consumer channels. Karl acknowledges the orchestration required to have the right product on the right shelf at the right time, but maintains that once that groundwork is laid, consumer advocacy genuinely drives momentum — monitored by a substantial London-based social media team operating in near-real-time.From butter to vacuum cleaners — unlearning "fast-moving"[13:30]Karl reflects on his biggest career assumption: that food — with its short shelf life and weekly repurchase — was the fastest-moving category he could work in. In reality, the consumer electronics innovation cycle moves far quicker. A pound of butter hasn't changed in 100 years; what you can buy with a plug changes constantly. The consumer's appetite for "the next big thing" in appliances was something he had been naive about.The repurchase problem — five air fryers in a student kitchen[16:00]Ian describes visiting his daughter's student house and finding five Ninja air fryers in a row. Unlike butter, which is replenished weekly, an air fryer may last years. Karl explains how SharkNinja addresses this through relentless category extension (from air fryers to coffee machines to pizza ovens) and within-category innovation (e.g., the new Crispy air fryer offering new capabilities even in a market with 80%+ penetration). The challenge for brand teams is maintaining a coherent brand identity across products that range from £150 to £500.The Nordics — why one size doesn't fit all[20:00]Karl describes the reality of managing Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland, where SharkNinja is a younger, less well-known brand. Amazon barely registers (around 1% market share) and direct-to-consumer e-commerce is less embedded than in the UK, France or Germany. This forces a different playbook: closer partnerships with dominant regional retailers like Elkjøp, using their credibility to build consumer trust. DTC sites are live in Sweden and Denmark, with Norway and Finland to follow later this year.What makes a great retail partner — the case for risk-taking[24:00]Asked to sketch the ideal retail partner, Karl's answer is pointed: willingness to take risks. Too many retailers, particularly in the UK, wait to see what competitors do, accelerating stasis. Karl calls for partners prepared to give more space to new brands, trial new categories, and experiment with pricing and promotions — even modest risks that could benefit the entire category, not just one supplier.Fleet of foot — when TikTok moves faster than range reviews[26:00]Karl identifies a structural tension: social media trends move in hours, but ...
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    33 m
  • "AI, Gamification, and the future of Loyalty" - Richard Potter, Microsoft, and Mrinalini Chowdhary, Epsilon

    "AI, Gamification, and the future of Loyalty" - Richard Potter, Microsoft, and Mrinalini Chowdhary, Epsilon
    Feb 4 2026
    Changing the Game - AI, Gamification & the Future of LoyaltyIn this episode of Marketing Un:Learned, Ian Jindal talks with Richard Potter, Director of Digital Strategy at Microsoft, and Mrinalini Chowdhary, Director of Strategy and Insights at Epsilon, about unlearning the outdated transactional view of loyalty programmes and rebuilding them around emotional engagement, permissioned data, and AI-driven personalization.From psychological drivers to agentic commerce, Richard and Mrinalini explore how gamification creates engagement loops and habits beyond the checkout, why loyalty is the permission system that unlocks responsible AI, and what empathy, measurement, and focus mean for leaders redesigning loyalty in 2026.Key Topics & TimestampsIntroductions: From Banking to Loyalty, Engineering to BoardroomsMrinalini introduces her journey from banking through startups into loyalty strategy at Epsilon, bringing 15 years of experience in strategy consulting, marketing, and product management. Richard outlines his hybrid role as engineer and business strategist, translating technology shifts into boardroom value for retail and consumer goods clients at Microsoft.02:50 - What Is "Digital" When Everything Is Digital?Richard explains that his "digital" title reflects the customer challenge: helping organisations understand what digital means in their operations. The real interest lies at the intersection of ones and zeros with human dynamics - whether in employees or consumers - and how digital experiences mobilise emotional responses while being rationally interpreted by systems.07:30 - 10:50 - Redefining Loyalty: Beyond Transactional SpamMrinalini reframes loyalty as shifting from purely transactional mechanics (sign up, purchase, get points) to emotional engagement. Modern loyalty must be dynamic and adaptive, creating engagement loops through sequential actions that build habits and keep consumers thinking about the brand between purchases, not just at checkout.10:50 - 13:40 - Psychological Drivers: Purpose, Delight, Empowerment & Loss AversionMrinalini unpacks the core psychological drivers that differentiate effective gamified loyalty:Purpose - Clear ultimate aims communicated through missions, tiers, and progress bars (both mechanics and visuals)Delight - Surprise, instant feedback, and gratification through pop-ups and visual rewardsEmpowerment - Giving consumers choice (e.g., select your birthday gift)Loss aversion - Streaks, expiring points, time-limited challengesScarcity - Exclusive VIP-tier benefitsSocial connection - Group challenges, quests, leaderboards, and competitive elementsThese drivers are individualised - what motivates one consumer differs from another.13:40 - 16:50 - From Passive Pages to Active Engagement LoopsIan references Tesco Media’s co-branded mechanic with Florian Clemens: instead of blanket discounts, customers choose 10 products they haven’t bought recently for a “game card,” then earn rewards by organically purchasing them over several weeks. The customer isn’t bribed - they’re playing, and brands fund the prize pool. This exemplifies the shift from passive loyalty pages to dynamic, habit-forming engagement.16:50 - 19:50 - The Rational Engine: AI Accelerates ExperimentationRichard frames loyalty as an inherently irrational, emotional human contract, but one that technology must solve rationally. Algorithms optimise contract dynamics on both sides of the exchange, but trust is fragile. The step-change with foundational models and machine learning is exponential horsepower: marketers can introduce new mechanics, test, fail, and iterate faster and cheaper than ever before. Experimentation is both accelerating and becoming more economical.19:50 - 24:50 - Agentic AI: When the Customer’s AI Talks to Your AIIan raises the strategic challenge: consumers now wield agentic AI that can cut through emotional loyalty and gamification to demand “best deal now.” The retailer’s advantage - massive data, sophisticated algorithms - is now matched by AI in the customer’s hands. Richard acknowledges the compression and hiding of the traditional contact period (website navigation, search indexing, abandoned baskets). Boardrooms are asking how to redeploy capital previously locked in telemetry, armies of analysts, and A/B testing.But AI is both challenge and solution: rational engines can anticipate agentic commerce and help enlightened boards reorient resources. The key is robust, permissioned data.24:50 - 28:10 - Gamified Loyalty as the Permission System for AIMrinalini describes gamified loyalty as linking campaigns in a cumulative string, tapping into “micro moments” that feel achievable and generate permission-based data. This data becomes a powerhouse fuelling all marketing channels - ROI extends far beyond incremental loyalty revenue into areas impossible to quantify.Richard underscores this point: loyalty is the ...
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    35 m
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