It took them eight episodes, but Si and Neil finally tackle AI. No future predictions (well, almost), no hot takes, just two engineering managers sharing what they're actually doing with these tools, what's surprised them, and what still makes them nervous.

They cover using LLMs as thinking partners, the difference between AI that writes code and AI that helps you engineer better, agentic tools and what happens when you give them real access, and why good engineering practices might matter more now, not less. Oh, and they do make some predictions at the end. They'll probably be wrong. That's kind of the point.

Timestamped to April 2026. This will be outdated by the time you listen to it.

CHAPTERS

• 00:00 - Illness, delays and finally talking about AI
• 04:32 - Framing it: LLMs vs AI as a broader term
• 06:09 - How Si and Neil are using AI day to day
• 12:41 - AI baked into everything: Copilot, Confluence and the Microsoft rebrand
• 16:24 - The accelerant problem: AI amplifies what's already there
• 19:38 - Industry noise, AI fatigue and working out the real value
• 30:06 - Agentic AI: what it is and why it changes things
• 34:01 - What they've learned from using LLMs (tips for getting started)
• 50:07 - Predictions: AI in engineering this time next year
• 53:32 - The future of EMs, QA and small teams

USEFUL LINKS

Dave Farley - Modern Software Engineering (Continuous Delivery): https://www.youtube.com/c/ContinuousDelivery

Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com

Cursor (AI code editor): https://www.cursor.com

GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot

Claude (Anthropic): https://claude.ai

OpenClaw (agentic AI tool): https://openclau.ai

Notion AI: https://www.notion.com/product/ai

CONNECT WITH US

Si Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

CREDITS

Produced by Unstyled Studios.

Artwork by Si.

Edited in Descript.

Hosted on Pinecast.

Support Managing Engineers by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/managingengineers

Find out more at http://podcast.managingengineers.net

Read transcript

In this episode, Si and Neil talk about the communities that helped shape their careers and perspectives as engineers and leaders.

From grassroots meetups and agile communities to internal workplace groups and side project collectives, they explore how the right people in the right space can accelerate learning, create opportunities, and build lasting friendships.

They also discuss what makes communities thrive or fade away. Sometimes scale changes the dynamic, sometimes life simply moves on, but the impact often stays with you long after.

Along the way they share personal stories about meetups, online communities, internal workplace groups, and why feeling like you belong somewhere matters more than people often realise.

If you have ever wondered whether it is worth joining a meetup, starting a community at work, or creating a small group around a shared interest, this episode might give you the nudge you need.

Because sometimes the community that changes your career is just one conversation away.

⸻

CHAPTERS

00:00 - Friday preamble and why we record at the end of the week 02:00 - What do we mean by “communities that made us?” 06:30 - Early communities and how they opened doors in our careers 12:30 - When communities scale and start to lose their grassroots feel 17:00 - Building a side project community during lockdown 22:30 - Small communities and why intimacy matters 27:00 - Internal communities at work and communities of practice 31:45 - Leadership support and funding for communities 34:00 - Neurodiversity networks and safe spaces in organisations 39:00 - Private vs public communities and finding the right balance 48:30 - Advice for anyone thinking about starting a community 52:00 - Why joining a community can change everything

⸻

USEFUL LINKS

The Multipack - https://multipack.co.uk

Cambridge Agile Exchange - https://www.meetup.com/cambridge-agile-exchange/

Building Successful Communities of Practice - https://emilywebber.co.uk/books/building-successful-communities-of-practice/

UK Government Community of Practice Guide - https://communityofpractice.gov.uk/

⸻

Connect with the hosts

Si Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilyounger/

Podcast archive https://podcast.managingengineers.net

Support Managing Engineers by contributing to their tip jar: https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/managingengineers

This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Read transcript

Metrics are meant to help.

But sometimes they just perform.

In this episode, we explore the difference between measurement that drives insight and measurement that becomes theatre. From counting test cases and commit history, to DORA metrics and Monte Carlo forecasting, we unpack how numbers can guide teams - or quietly distort behaviour .

We reflect on how metrics have evolved over the past 25 years, how Agile shifted the way we think about delivery and value, and why modern teams now have more data than ever but not always more clarity.

We also challenge a few uncomfortable truths:

• When a metric becomes a target
• When dashboards replace conversations
• When velocity gets mistaken for predictability
• When comparing teams causes more harm than insight
• When “healthy culture” is reduced to a number

At its best, a metric is an invitation to a conversation.

At its worst, it is theatre.

• Early career metrics: counting test cases and “how many did you do?”
• Commit counts, leaderboards and accidental gamification
• From CD releases to cloud shipping and real time telemetry
• DORA and the four key delivery metrics
• SPACE Framework and measuring beyond output
• Monte Carlo method vs story point velocity
• Confidence levels and how to talk about uncertainty with stakeholders
• Goodhart’s law and the danger of turning measures into targets
• Pulse surveys, fatigue and the limits of yearly sentiment snapshots
• The challenge: if you could only pick one metric, what would it be?

• Monte Carlo method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method https://medium.com/@benjihuser/an-introduction-and-step-by-step-guide-to-monte-carlo-simulations-4706f675a02f
• Actionable Agile for Jira https://www.55degrees.se/products/actionableagileanalytics
• DORA research https://dora.dev/research/
• SPACE Framework https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rbekHpG4Q
• Goodhart’s law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
• Moving beyond velocity https://docondev.com/escape-velocity
• PETALS Measuring team health across Productivity, Enjoyment, Teamwork, Learning and Serenity https://petals.team https://app.petals.team

• 00:00:07 - Intro and over engineering an EV charger box
• 00:02:16 - Why metrics matter and how they can mislead
• 00:03:27 - Counting test cases and early vanity metrics
• 00:05:45 - Commit counts and gamified leaderboards
• 00:09:57 - DORA metrics and delivery performance
• 00:13:07 - SPACE and measuring people, not just output
• 00:16:02 - Time to learn vs time to earn
• 00:20:03 - Monte Carlo forecasting vs velocity
• 00:24:35 - Pulse surveys, fatigue and psychological safety
• 00:30:03 - What averages hide
• 00:35:05 - Goodhart’s Law and when metrics go wrong
• 00:45:07 - If you could only choose one metric
• 00:50:56 - Wrap up and listener challenge

Connect with us on LinkedIn…

Neil Younger - https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-younger/

Simon Jobling - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sijobling/

What do you measure?

What have you stopped measuring?

And what has backfired spectacularly?