What to listen for:

Two-thirds of The Dames of Detection, Robin Greubel and Stacy Barnett, welcome Steve White, a veteran law enforcement K9 trainer whose 46-year career began in military working dog handling in 1975.

Steve discusses the challenges facing modern police canine programs, particularly how vendor-driven training models often prioritize efficiency over optimization, which creates sessions where handlers log hours without meaningful individual development.

Central to Steve's philosophy is building fluency in component behaviors before chaining them together. He emphasizes the "search-locate-report" sequence as the foundation of detection work, and warns against the common mistake of teaching dogs to retrieve training aids initially. This approach creates problems through the “law of primacy:” dogs default to their earliest learned behaviors under stress, leading to dangerous outcomes like consuming narcotics or explosives.

Steve draws a critical distinction between "search dogs" and "examination dogs." Medical detection dogs must systematically examine each sample rather than hunting for the strongest odor source; a dog that vaults past a Stage 1 cancer sample to alert on Stage 4 creates catastrophic consequences. Similarly, explosive detection work often requires methodical examination of luggage or spaces where missing a threat is unacceptable.

Steve traces his evolution from using sport castoff dogs from Europe to developing selection criteria focused on "self-righting" dogs: calm, confident animals who never seek fights but finish them. He shows us why it’s so important to understand the trade-offs inherent in every training decision!

Key Topics:

• Steve's Background and Career Evolution (03:10)
• Modern Police K9 Training Challenges (08:02)
• European Dog Selection and Trade-offs (16:03)
• The Search-Locate-Report Chain (27:09)
• Law of Primacy in Dog Training (28:19)
• Building Chains Without Fluency (30:29)
• German Tracking Experiments and Training Methods (37:00)
• Training Methods and Trade-offs (44:10)
• Dogs as Tools of Force in Law Enforcement (48:20)

Resources:

You can find Steve White:

• Proactive K9 Website
• Proactive K9 Website Forms

USPCA YouTube Channel: Where you can find Steve's three-part series on odor/scent fundamentals, a 1000-hour eyes presentation where he talks about the eight indicators of dogs being on odor, and Robin's presentations about the recipe for building a great training session.

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

"Get a dog, take the dog you have, start training, do it yourself. Yes, the client dogs will come, the other pieces will come, but get yourself out there."

2/3 of our hosts, Robin Greubel and Stacy Barnett, sit down with Katelyn Graham from Katalyst Kennels, who shares her expertise in breeding and training Labrador Retrievers for detection tasks while managing a multifaceted kennel operation!

Katelyn’s going deep into producing what she calls “green dogs”: canine companions who are behaviorally and health-wise ready for specialized training without formal odor imprinting.

She encourages handlers to put considerable focus into young dog development, from day zero to 12-18 months, the period in which environmental exposure and hunting skills are best shaped. Focusing your training around this period ensures that your dog is versatile for tasks like narcotics or explosives detection.

Katelyn also acknowledges the emotional and logistical challenges of breeding, such as managing failed litters or health crises (citing one puppy’s staggering $15,000 jaw surgery as an example).

Her pet boarding business subsidizes these costs, which is a great way for handlers to weigh the ethical pros and cons of these heavy decisions without the financial pressure. For aspiring trainers, she advises hands-on experience over formal education alone, urging them to embrace grunt work and early morning tracking sessions to gain practical skills.

Katelyn believes that success demands relentless dedication, from sleepless nights with puppies to mentoring eager learners, all to ensure quality working dogs for critical roles!

Key Topics:

• All About Katelyn Graham (01:28)
• What is a “Green Dog”? (07:23)
• Selection Testing on Puppies (13:41)
• Tailoring Testing to the Current Realities of Field Trials (22:27)
• Challenges of Breeding (27:55)
• Advice for Aspiring Trainers (32:56)
• Key Takeaways (43:56)

Resources:

• Katalyst Kennels (Website)
• Katalyst Kennels (Facebook)

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com

What to listen for:

Our hosts, Robin Greubel, Stacy Barnett, and Crystal Wing, dive deep into a counterintuitive training philosophy sparked by their recent interview with Petra Ford: sometimes accepting imperfection creates better performance in complex behavior chains.

The conversation began with Petra's story about reinforcing her dog even when she knew it wasn't sitting perfectly square. When working on complex detection behaviors, trying to perfect every element simultaneously can destroy the bigger picture. As Robin notes with her recall-refine work over 600 feet of varied terrain, if she withheld reinforcement because her dog's elbows weren't perfectly down, she'd be punishing extraordinary effort over a minor detail.

Crystal's breakthrough came through Denise Fenzi's exercise that forced her to reward every single repetition—even mistakes. When her dog Checkmate downed instead of sitting, Crystal still had to reward it. "I thought it would ruin my training," she admits, "but instead it ruined my frustration." The exercise revealed that her dogs were trying harder than she'd realized. They weren't being disobedient; they were navigating the learning process.

The Dames of Detection emphasize balance throughout. Yes, reward imperfect efforts when building complex chains or working through challenging problems. But don't reside there permanently—sloppy chains help no one. The key is reading patterns: one mistake is information, three times becomes a training issue to address.

Every attempt provides valuable information. Whether working detection, obedience, or protection sports, dogs need to feel free to try without fear of shutdown. When handlers create that emotional safety through strategic reinforcement—even of imperfect attempts—dogs develop the grit and resilience needed for complex work.

Key Topics:

• Petra Ford's Philosophy on Complex Behavior Chains (00:59)
• Recall-Refine Over Distance: When Good Enough is Great (02:52)
• Teaching Scent Theory vs. Perfect Alerts (05:00)
• Crystal's Breakthrough: Rewarding Every Repetition (12:33)
• Building Duration Behaviors (22:41)
• Reading Patterns vs. One-Off Mistakes (36:20)
• Final Takeaways on Clarity and Balance (41:51)

Resources:

• K9 Detection Collaborative Episode 142: Talking Training with Petra Ford Pt 1
• K9 Detection Collaborative Episode 143: Talking Training with Petra Ford Pt 2

We want to hear from you:

• Check out the K9 Detection Collaborative FB page and comment on the episode post!
• K9Sensus Detection Dog Trainer Academy
• K9Sensus Foundation can be found on Facebook and Instagram. We have a Trainer’s Group on Facebook!
• Scentsabilities Nosework is also on Facebook. Here is a Facebook group you should join!
• Crystal Wing (CB K9) can be found here!
• You can follow us for notifications of upcoming episodes, find us at k9detectioncollaborative.com