George Martin, Carnism Debunked, joins the channel for a discussion about some of the most harmful things in the vegan movement over the last decade or so. As a self-described centrist, George has been one of the fiercest critics of some on the political left's gatekeeping of animal rights, as well as intersectionalism in the movement. He often takes on topics that others are timid to touch and isn't afraid of the isolation that could bring. I have not always agreed with George's takes, but I agree with him more than not. And I appreciate how willing he is to take on tough topics.Beyond that, I find George to be one of the most articulate and clear when it comes to advocating animal rights. I appreciate his good-natured style in debates, and how he seems to relish in the pursuit of truth. As I told him in the interview, I think we are lucky to have in the movement. We discussed Seaspiracy director Ali Tabrizi failing to navigate the marshmallow minefield (hat tip my friend Felix for that line), the short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" and of course intersectionalism in this episode. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:George's YouTubeGeorge's IGGeorge's FBCarnismdebunked.com"The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" videoPodcast with Natalie FultonPodcast with Wayne Hsiung Watch EarthlingsWatch Dominion

I've been an admirer of Jim Sande's music for decades. Jim makes rich, layered sonic tapestries that are hard to describe in a few words. I was so deeply moved by what I consider his masterpience album "Harvest Bell Ride" that I reached out to him, and he responded with a kind message of his own. This was probably 20 years ago. Since then, I've kept a sporadic, sparse correspondence with him over the years. Finally, I decided why not ask him to be on my program?There are several reasons for doing so. For one, I felt Jim was a hidden gem of sorts, a composer few knew about that more ought to. Another reason was purely selfish: I just wanted to talk to the guy and pick his brain. Remember the old saying "Never meet your heroes"? That didn't apply here. Jim was as kind and gracious and interesting as I expected him to be, if not moreso. Talking to him felt like talking to an old friend, and in a way I was. The way I listen to Jim Sande is oddly specific. I listen to him often while reading Haruki Murakami novels. I've shared with him that they pair so well together that it's as if they collaborated, and that I can't really read Murakami without listening to Sande's music, because it feels incomplete. And to this day, I still don't.I also hear in Jim's music a sensitivity, a kindess that made it feel appropriate to bring him on what is primarily an animal rights channel. And interestingly enough, we did discuss animals quite a bit. Perhaps it's his Buddhist background, his artist sensibility, or some combination, but he seems to hold a deep reverence for animals. I forgot that over the years, his paintings, another passion of his, have largely been of animals, and only recalled that as I looked for photos after the fact for a thumbnail (haha!).In any case, I deeply enjoyed getting to know Jim a bit better, and I hope some of you will discover him and find his music through this conversation. This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Jim's blogJim on SpotifyJim on FacebookJim on IG"Harvest Bell Ride"Jim on YouTubeWatch EarthlingsWatch Dominion

Elizabeth MeLampy's book "Forget the Camel" is unforgettable. It's a look at a world most of us know very little about: the world of animal festivals. I've come to learn animal festivals are nearly everywhere, yet most of them detailed in this book I'd never heard of. And while there are some well-known festivals like the Iditarod sled dog race and the Groundhog Day festival, even those I got a richer understanding of after reading "Forget the Camel."

I have come to know Elizabeth because she plans to work on a book about the open rescue movement. After reading her recently released debut novel, I am even more looking forward to that book. Because Elizabeth brought an enormous amount of care and thoughtfulness to this project on animal festivals, which was simultaneously a continuation of her grandmother's unfinished work on this same topic as well as grappling with her own concerns as someone who wants a better world for animals. The book asks hard questions about festivals that are centered on animals who have not in any way consented to their use. And Elizabeth asked those questions in a way that is honest and open-minded, and leaves us with a provocative work that will keep you thinking after you've closed the book.

This interview is also available on YouTube.

Links:

The book

Elizabeth's website

Elizabeth on IG

Watch Earthlings

Watch Dominion