Kristin Messegee sits down with Lindsey Davis for a Type Seven installment of Inside Story—and what starts as a “get to know you” quickly becomes a rich, surprisingly tender exploration of how Sevens actually experience their inner world.

Lindsey shares the personal upheaval of 2025 (divorce, re-finding herself, and realizing she’d been mistyped as a Two for nearly a decade), and the two of them unpack what changes when you’re finally looking through the right lens: why boundaries can feel hard for different reasons, how reframing works as both a gift and a defense, and what it’s like to feel “a good day” while quietly bracing for it to disappear.

Along the way they talk somatic awareness, the body as truth-teller, the “good girl vs good woman” shift, anger as a boundary signal, and even why some Sevens show up publicly for hard topics (like politics) while avoiding the friction one-on-one. It’s funny, honest, and deeply practical—an episode for anyone trying to build self-trust, tell more of the story, and stay present when life gets complicated.

Kristin Messegee flips the script on Inside Story and lets herself be the Six, handing the interviewer role to Jeff Cook. They dig into how Sixes read strength, why reliability feels magnetic, and what “pushing against” someone really means when you need the ground to hold.

We talk about triggers, control, and the specific places anxiety shows up—her husband’s health, her kids, her work, and a divided world that fuels her distrust of groupthink and institutions. They talk about unproductive thinking, why encouragement often doesn’t land, and what actually helps: interrupting the spiral through the body, regulating the system, and building an internal voice that stays kind and steady.

Along the way: independence as freedom (hello, car rides), “escape” as an eject button, and a funny, skeptical detour into AI and certainty.

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In this episode of Inside Story, host Kristin Messegee sits down with Saleh Vallander—Sweden-based doctor, meditation teacher, and Enneagram author—for a rich, spacious conversation on Enneagram Type Five from the inside out.

Saleh shares how he discovered the Enneagram on a meditation retreat in 2017, why a spiritual frame matters to him, and how storytelling, metaphor, and nonverbal language can sometimes reveal a type more accurately than intellectual description. Kristin and Saleh explore the Five’s relationship to “knowing”—not as trivia-collecting, but as a visceral hunger to uncover what’s underneath things—and the challenge of trying to isolate “type” from other parts of personality (including cognitive styles and tritype dynamics).

From there, the conversation moves into the heart of Saleh's work and his book The Nine Barriers to the Heart: the way each type loses contact with essential qualities, chases a partial truth, and eventually discovers that the deepest change isn’t self-improvement—it’s acceptance. Together they name what Fives often avoid (emptiness), how that emptiness can feel like an existential threat, and why non-attachment isn’t an idealized spiritual pose but the byproduct of learning to be with what you’ve been running from.

Along the way, you’ll hear striking distinctions—Five “isolation” versus Four “estrangement,” how withdrawal can look polite on the outside while fear hides underneath, and why the quest for happiness can become its own mirage when it’s driven by the “miserable self.” If you’re a Five, love a Five, or want a more honest conversation about spiritual work that doesn’t bypass suffering, this one lands deep.