We’ve all seen it: the superstar hire who looks perfect on paper but starts drowning within six months.

They have the degree. They have the experience. They have the "Midwest work ethic" Dustin DeBoer and I talked about. So what went wrong?

On the newest I’m Up He See’s Me I’m Down, Dustin explains that productivity isn't just about effort—it's about alignment. When you ask a natural visionary to manage minute details, or a natural supporter to make cold, hard executive decisions, you are asking them to "mask" their true selves.

That mask is heavy. It leads to burnout, errors, and eventually, departure. Dustin’s work in leadership consulting proves that when you align a person’s role with their God-given wiring, productivity doesn't just improve—it becomes effortless.

Most leaders believe their biggest hurdle is execution, but what if the real problem is an identity crisis? In this episode, Mike Turner sits down with executive coach and leadership consultant Desiree Cocroft to discuss the philosophy behind her company, Destination Life.

With over 22 years of experience, Desiree shares why high-performing professionals often fall into the trap of "proving energy"—constantly trying to validate their worth—rather than leading from a place of secure identity and "being energy". The conversation explores how to move beyond productivity systems to focus on intentional growth, the importance of psychological safety in the workplace, and why leadership is a skill that must be cultivated rather than a trait you are simply "born with".

Whether you are feeling stuck in your career or simply need a reminder to pause, breathe, and reset, this episode provides actionable insights on how to enjoy the journey of leadership while managing the stressors of today’s fast-moving world.

Key Discussion Points:

• Identity vs. Execution: Why your inability to reach a goal is often an identity or root-cause issue, not a lack of strategy.

• The "Proving" Trap: How to shift from "proving energy" (scarcity-based) to "being energy" (security-based).

• The Art of the Pause: Practical habits for self-care and re-centering yourself to neutral throughout a high-stress workday.

• Cultivating Leadership: Why leadership is a learnable skill that requires constant cultivation, similar to athletic training.

• Defining Success: How to chase a feeling of peace and joy rather than just chasing the next job title.

→ I’m Up He See’s Me I’m Down — real conversations about rising when life knocks you down.

In this episode of I'm Up! He sees Me, I'm Down PODCAST, Mike Turner talks with Steve Lentini — CEO of Lord & Lentini, bestselling author, and host of Different Thinking for Different Times. They explore Steve’s extraordinary journey from a near-death experience to a mission-driven career coaching CEOs and sales leaders. Together, they discuss how emotional intelligence, mindfulness, and “Sales CPR” can reignite purpose, elevate performance, and bring new life to leadership in today’s business world.