How big should Australia be?

Immigration is back at the centre of federal politics – again.

The Coalition’s new leadership is arguing Australia needs lower numbers, tougher rules, and a clearer cap on how many people we bring in each year.

It’s a familiar conversation. In the lead up to the 2024 election, Peter Dutton tried to put a hard number on it – promising to cut migration by 100,000 a year, saying it would help free up housing for Australians.

But critics say a large cut would hit the workforce Australia relies on, including the people needed to build more homes.

Abul Rizvi was a senior official in the Department of Immigration from the early 90s to 2007, when he left as deputy secretary.

He says the argument we keep having – election after election – skips the bigger question: Australia’s need for a long-term population plan, and what we want it to achieve.

Today, Abul Rizvi on the politics of population growth.

This episode was first published in April, 2025.

If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.

Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram

Guest: Former deputy secretary of the department of immigration, Abul Rizvi.

Photo: AAP Image/Lukas Coch

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.