How Jen Fry Thinks About Conflict for Stronger Trust

Conflict isn’t just blowups—it’s the quiet moments where people stop speaking up, innovation stalls, and trust erodes. In this episode, Kenny Lange sits down with Dr. Jen Fry to unpack how leaders can turn conflict into a leadership advantage by building cultures of clarity, accountability, and repair. They talk sunk cost fallacy, moving fast without fear, and why mistakes can become the strongest trust-building moments. You’ll leave with a practical “baby step” you can take in the next 24 hours to see how your team experiences you.Listen on Other PlatformsApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-leaders-think-with-kenny-lange/id1434737807 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2wKtzb6KaF1vNlG9TsZkzh Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy50cmFuc2lzdG9yLmZtL2tlZXAtcmlzaW5nLXdpdGgta2VubnktbGFuZ2U= Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b13c5d64-50db-4626-9685-c356116ec54b YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KennyLange/podcasts Website: https://howleadersthink.kennylange.com/Jen Fry ResourcesWebsite: https://jenfrytalks.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenfry13 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenfrytalks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenfrytalks Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/jenfrytalks YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jenfrytalks Book page: https://jenfrytalks.com/book/ Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/five-with-fry/id1790278475Books MentionedI Said No: How to Have a Backbone and Boundaries Without Being a JerkLeveling Up (Ryan Leak)Chapters00:00 - Sunk cost fallacy intro 00:30 - Welcome & Jen Fry bio 02:45 - Why conflict hurts companies 04:00 - The “small, insidious” breakdowns 05:45 - When talent threatens comfort 07:20 - Leaders over-identify with “the way” 11:10 - Pivoting fast in tech 13:20 - Andy Stanley: date the model 15:10 - Sports: speed, scouting, adjustment 18:10 - Clean breaks vs “dragging debt” 21:30 - Spend money to make money 22:10 - The mistake spectrum (0–10) 24:10 - 5,000 texts: accountability test 25:10 - Rupture & repair builds trust 29:10 - “Go toward the smoke” 33:00 - 24-hour step: ask your assistant 35:00 - “What’s it like to be me?” 39:10 - Where to find Jen + wrapHashtags#HowLeadersThink #Leadership #OrganizationalCulture #ConflictResolution