In this episode, we talk with Rob Miller, co-founder of Bloodshot Records and author of The Hours Were Long, but the Pay Was Low. Rob shares stories from the early days of building an influential indie label, the realities of DIY music culture, and what it really took to survive on passion, community, and very little money. It’s an honest, funny look at the long hours behind independent music—and why it was all worth it.

Rob is a Detroit native so of course we discussed Disco Demolition Night (Rob has an interesting angle as a Tiger fan) and why Lou Whitaker is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Rob Miller's website: https://www.robmillerwriting.com/
Rob on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robmillerwriting/
Rob Miller's Bloodshot playlist: https://tinyurl.com/Bloodshot011226

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2026.

What's going on with Michigan football? Craig and Rex look at random baseball news. Also, the Hooks & Runs year-end music review, featuring our favorite albums of 2025.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.

Joseph Natalicchio is the author of "Baseball's Most Outrageous Promotions: From Wedlock and Headlock Day to Disco Demolition Night" (McFarland 2025), released earlier in December. This is a wonderful book - we discuss everything from Disco Demolition Night to the night fans tore apart a ballpark while game played on to why baseball promotions have gotten so boring!

Joseph was a gracious guest and we hope you enjoy this chat.

Here is the link to the book at McFarland (link above):
https://tinyurl.com/promotions121125
...or buy the book at the affiliate link below.

Please consider supporting Hooks & Runs by purchasing books, including those featured in this episode (if any were), through our store at Bookshop.org. Here's the link. https://bookshop.org/shop/hooksandruns

Hooks & Runs - https://hooksandruns.buzzsprout.com
Email: hooksandruns@protonmail.com
Craig on Bluesky (@craigest.bsky.social)
Rex (Krazy Karl's Music Emporium) on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/people/Krazy-Karlz-Music-Emporium/100063801500293/
Hosts Emeriti:
Andrew Eckhoff on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@hofffest
Eric on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ichaboderic/
Music: "Warrior of Light" by ikolics (via Premium Beat)
www.premiumbeat.com/artist/ikoliks
This podcast and this episode are copyright Craig Estlinbaum, 2025.