Michael W. Brown joins the Hazard Class Podcast to trace his path from retail security in Cincinnati to a 32-year DEA career spanning Detroit, Bolivia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Tajikistan, and Myanmar. He explains how overseas counter-narcotics work evolved from raiding labs and airstrips to targeting the chemical supply chains that keep global drug production running. The second half shifts to the modern drug landscape, where Brown breaks down fentanyl, cartel business models, border smuggling, and why precursor interdiction and field technology are central to the fight today.

LinkedIn: Rigaku — linkedin.com/company/rigakucorp

X: @rigaku — x.com/rigaku

YouTube: @RigakuCorporation — youtube.com/@RigakuCorporation

Instagram: @rigaku_corporation — instagram.com/rigaku_corporation

Facebook: RigakuCorp — facebook.com/RigakuCorp

00:00 — Intro and Michael Brown’s background
Brown is introduced along with his DEA career and current role at Rigaku.

01:18 — What inspired him to join DEA
A 60 Minutes segment on DEA operations in South America pushes him away from law school and toward federal service.

03:35 — The recruiter, the suit, and getting accepted
Brown tells the story of first showing up underdressed, getting sent back, and quickly landing a training slot.

08:49 — First assignment: Detroit
He begins his career in Detroit and describes the pace and intensity of narcotics work there.

13:31 — Undercover buys and street-level enforcement
The conversation moves into informants, cover stories, and what an actual buy-bust looked like.

26:29 — Bolivia and Operation Snowcap
Brown describes deploying to Bolivia, working with UMAPAR, and targeting cocaine labs, airstrips, and precursor hubs.

35:50 — Why the drug war never stayed contained
He reflects on early overseas operations, cartel adaptation, and the political limits of long-term success.

44:08 — Pakistan, 9/11, Afghanistan, and India
The discussion shifts to his overseas career arc and how counter-drug work intersected with broader geopolitical events.

49:58 — Myanmar and the pivot to chemical interdiction
Brown explains how meth production in Myanmar pushed him toward technology-based counter-narcotics work.

55:44 — Precursors as the center of gravity
He argues that precursor chemicals are the real lifeblood of fentanyl, heroin, cocaine, and meth production.

58:03 — How fentanyl spread
Brown gives his view of the fentanyl timeline, from opioids and heroin to cartel-driven synthetic drug production.

65:02 — Cartels as Fortune 500-style enterprises
He explains why modern cartels operate more like multinational corporations than street gangs.

74:51 — How drugs actually cross the border
Brown breaks down smuggling through points of entry, vehicle concealment, parcels, and volume overwhelm.

85:03 — Retirement and work at Rigaku
He closes by explaining how his current role helps agencies use technology to identify drugs and precursors more safely.

Deputy Assistant Chief (Ret.) Frank Leeb, a veteran of over 31 years with the FDNY. From his humble beginnings in East Farmingdale Volunteer Fire Department to retiring from the FDNY, Frank shares a wealth of knowledge and personal stories. He discusses his early days in volunteer firefighting, his journey through FDNY, and the lessons he's learned along the way. Frank’s passion for the fire service is evident as he talks about mentorship, training, leadership, and his work with the First Responder Center for Excellence, a program dedicated to addressing the mental and physical challenges faced by first responders.

Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction to Chief Frank Leeb:
Meet Chief Frank Leeb, a veteran firefighter with over 31 years of service. He shares his career journey and current work with the First Responder Center for Excellence.

2:00 - Early Beginnings in East Farmingdale Fire Department:
Frank reflects on his childhood and how his brother’s involvement in the East Farmingdale Fire Department inspired him to join, highlighting the diverse group of people who mentored him in his early volunteer years.

4:00 - The Influence of His Brother and Volunteer Fire Service Mentors:
Frank discusses how volunteer mentors shaped his understanding of leadership and service, emphasizing the importance of learning from everyone around you.

7:00 - The FDNY Connection and the Path to Joining the Department:
Frank talks about his decision to pursue a career in the FDNY, passing the entrance exam at 17, and the early connections he made with city firefighters.

10:00 - Lessons from the First Real Fire:
Frank recalls his first significant fire in New York City and the lessons learned about preparation, teamwork, and using all firefighting equipment.

19:00 - The Value of Training and Lifelong Learning in the Fire Service:
Frank highlights the importance of continuous education in the fire service and how a lifelong commitment to learning shaped his leadership style.

26:00 - The Evolution of Fire Academy Training and Changes in Expectations:
A look back at fire academy training in Frank’s early days and how it has evolved, particularly with EMS integration and the ongoing challenge of meeting modern demands.

30:00 - The Importance of Fire Academies Being Both Difficult and Realistic:
Frank discusses the debate about fire academy standards and the need for a balance between difficulty and realistic expectations for the job.

41:00 - Transition from Engine Work to Special Operations (Squad 270):
Frank shares his experiences transitioning to Squad 270, one of the FDNY's special operations units, and how the specialized training prepared him for complex fire scenes.

50:00 - The Impact of 9/11 on the FDNY and the Fire Service Community:
Frank gives an emotional account of the events of September 11, 2001, discussing the loss of colleagues and the strength of the FDNY’s response in the aftermath.

1:10:00 - The Importance of Resilience and Leadership After Tragedy:
Frank talks about the FDNY's resilience after 9/11, sharing lessons in leadership and pride from the department's response to the tragedy.

1:15:00 - Frank’s Work with the First Responder Center for Excellence:
Frank discusses his current role at the First Responder Center for Excellence, focusing on the organization's efforts to address mental health, cancer awareness, and other challenges faced by first responders.

Important Resources:
First Responder Center for Excellence
Frank’s books: Cornerstones of Leadership, On and Off the Fireground, 30 Fires You Must Know.

Jared Vermeulen, a South Florida fire captain with nearly 20 years in the fire service and author of The Modern Fire Officer.

Jared shares his unconventional journey into firefighting, his early involvement in special operations, and the lessons that shaped his leadership philosophy. The conversation explores firehouse culture, mentorship, career development, and the evolving responsibilities of today’s fire officers.

https://modernfireofficer.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Fire-Officer-Building-Endures-ebook/dp/B0GQDNXM6T?ref_=saga_ast_ss_dsk_dp

0:00 – Introduction
The host introduces the Hazard Class Podcast and welcomes fire captain and author Jared Vermeulen.

2:18 – Jared’s Origin Story
Jared explains how he originally planned to pursue industrial design before firefighter friends encouraged him to try the fire service.

3:25 – Special Operations Career Path
Early in his career, Jared pursued specialized rescue disciplines including rope rescue, trench rescue, confined space, hazmat, and vehicle machinery rescue.

4:59 – EMS and Fire Service Operations
Discussion of how South Florida fire departments operate integrated EMS systems where firefighters frequently function as paramedics and handle a high volume of medical calls.

7:13 – Becoming a Paramedic First
Jared attended paramedic school before fire academy due to hiring delays, which ultimately helped him secure a position with his department.

9:39 – Training and Probation
New hires undergo an intensive onboarding program and rigorous medical protocol training before operating independently.

14:49 – Traveling Before the Fire Service
Before becoming a firefighter, Jared spent significant time traveling throughout Central and South America, gaining life experience that shaped his worldview.

16:16 – Perspective from Ecuador
A powerful story about working with shrimp fishermen in Ecuador highlights how travel helped him gain appreciation for life and opportunity in the United States.

21:07 – The Firefighter Mindset
Jared discusses how many firefighters are driven by a desire for challenge, adventure, and testing themselves under pressure.

24:00 – Early Years in the Firehouse
Starting as the youngest member on his crews, Jared learned from firefighters with decades of experience.

26:27 – Learning Through Observation
He emphasizes that much of the best learning occurs during everyday calls through observation, discussion, and informal training moments.

32:24 – Promotions and Leadership
Jared reflects on moving quickly through the ranks and navigating the challenges of leading firefighters who once trained him.

40:06 – Why Become a Fire Officer
He explains that becoming a captain was about shaping culture and building a firehouse environment where firefighters can succeed.

42:08 – The Invisible Work of Leadership
Much of leadership involves unseen responsibilities—mentoring, managing relationships, and supporting firefighters through difficult calls.

45:41 – Developing Future Officers
Firefighters who aspire to lead must begin building technical competence, leadership ability, and strong relationships early in their careers.

49:57 – The Modern Fire Officer
Jared explains the concept behind his book and how the fire service has evolved due to expanded responsibilities, public scrutiny, and increasing expectations.

53:13 – Wearing Multiple Leadership Hats
Modern fire officers must act as incident commanders, mentors, coaches, and peer supporters depending on the situation.

55:22 – Mentorship in the Fire Service
A lack of mentorship is one of the biggest leadership gaps in many departments. Intentional mentoring programs are essential for developing future leaders.

58:25 – Morale and Firehouse Culture
Station-level officers play a critical role in shaping morale, while administrators must provide support and empowerment for those leaders.

Jake sits down with T. John Cunningham, Assistant Commissioner at the Minnesota Department of Public Safety. With a background in fire service leadership and emergency management, Cunningham shares his unique journey from a young fire explorer in Greenwich, Connecticut, to overseeing statewide emergency response systems in Minnesota.

John@tjohncunningham.com

www.tjohncunningham.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tjohncunningham/

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction
Host Jake introduces T. John Cunningham, former fire chief, emergency manager, and current Assistant Commissioner at the Minnesota Department of Public Safety.

03:00 - Early Beginnings in Public Safety
T. John reflects on how his public safety journey began at the age of 13 in Greenwich, Connecticut, as a Fire Explorer, sparking his passion for firefighting and technical rescue.

07:00 - Moving to Minnesota
Cunningham discusses his move to Minnesota to become fire chief and emergency management director in Elk River, including the personal challenges of relocating across the country.

10:00 - Leading Elk River Fire Department
Cunningham talks about his time as Fire Chief in Elk River, transforming the department and overcoming challenges as a younger fire service leader.

14:00 - Transitioning to Brooklyn Park
Cunningham shares the challenges of leading the Brooklyn Park Fire Department, transitioning from a volunteer workforce to a full-time career service.

18:00 - Building the Brooklyn Park Fire Academy
The creation of a fire academy in Brooklyn Park to improve training standards and recruit from within the community. Cunningham discusses how they structured the academy for success.

22:00 - The Art of Leading a Career Department
Cunningham talks about leading a career department, emphasizing the importance of setting clear expectations, building trust, and leading with empathy.

25:00 - Recruitment & Retention in the Fire Service
Cunningham discusses the ongoing challenges of recruitment and retention in the fire service, stressing the need to market the profession and inspire new generations of firefighters.

29:00 - Addressing Mental Health & Wellness
Cunningham reflects on the challenges firefighters face, such as PTSD and cancer, and discusses efforts in Minnesota to prioritize health and wellness for public safety workers.

32:00 - Moving to the State Department of Public Safety
Cunningham talks about his transition to the state level, where he now oversees the fire marshal division, emergency management, and 911 systems for Minnesota.

37:00 - The Future of 911 and Public Safety Systems
Cunningham discusses Minnesota’s efforts to modernize its 911 system, the role of technology, and the potential for AI in improving emergency services.

42:00 - Navigating State Leadership and Policy
Cunningham reflects on using his fire service leadership experience to bridge the gap between public safety agencies, the legislature, and local communities.

46:00 - Reimagining Emergency Services with Data
Cunningham talks about how data is increasingly shaping decisions in public safety, while also balancing the unpredictable nature of emergency services.

52:00 - Strategic Planning for Public Safety
Cunningham explains how he works with his team to plan for the future of public safety, focusing on the needs of Minnesotans across fire services and EMS.

56:00 - The Importance of Community Involvement
Cunningham stresses the importance of community involvement in shaping public safety, highlighting how strong relationships can improve emergency services outcomes.

1:00:00 - The Next Generation of Fire Service Leaders
Cunningham discusses the future of the fire service in Minnesota, citing the rise of new leaders bringing fresh perspectives to the profession.

1:04:00 - Closing Thoughts
Cunningham shares his passion for public safety and encourages listeners to get involved, be proactive, and continue supporting the next generation of first responders.

Jeremy Redman, a former FBI Special Agent and SWAT sniper with over two decades in the Bureau and prior experience with the U.S. Air Force and the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (OSI). Jeremy walks through the winding path from a childhood dream of being a fighter pilot to a career built around investigations, tactical operations, and leadership—plus what Hollywood gets wrong, why preparation is everything, and how faith and family helped him carry the weight of the job.

Book Available Here:

https://www.amazon.com/Send-Me-Chronicles-FBI-Sniper/dp/B0FB95BSW4?ref_=ast_author_dp

Chapter Breakdown & Timestamps

0:00 – 9:21 — Intro + Jeremy’s origin story (fighter pilotdream → OSI)

Jeremy explains the early obsession with aviation, the doorsthat shut, and how OSI became the first real “this is it” moment ininvestigations.

9:21 – 19:41 — Overseas interviewing + why “torture” failsat truth

Jeremy describes field interviewing detainees,rapport-building, and why coercion creates bad intelligence when you actuallyneed actionable truth.

~19:41 – 24:28 — Quantico mindset: open cases, protectvictims, don’t assume guilt

A major lesson: follow the evidence, stay constitutional,and avoid “I just want to catch a bad guy” thinking.

24:29 – 29:06 — How field offices choose priorities + “youcan’t go home” rule

Jeremy explains national priorities vs local realities (likeOklahoma’s context) and why the Bureau historically avoids sending agents totheir home regions.

29:06 – 39:35 — Joining FBI SWAT: selection, training, andstaying a “street agent”

Jeremy breaks down the path: agent → operator → sniper, pluswhy SWAT operators are still expected to be strong investigators first.

39:36 – 46:40 — Logistics, big ops, and what TV getshilariously wrong

From convoys and armored vehicles to the “badge flip”myth—Jeremy explains why Hollywood’s version of federal ops is entertaining…and wildly off.

46:40 – 55:00 — Working with local law enforcement + the“prep wins” philosophy

He talks cooperation vs friction, what federal databaseschange, and why every op gets serious planning—because the “easy mission”mindset is how teams lose people.

55:01 – 1:04:31 — Mistakes, AAR culture, sniper pipeline,and gear choices

Jeremy shares early “quiet mistakes,” the importance ofhonest debriefs (“hot wash”), and how sniper certification is really just “alicense to learn.” He also discusses why .308 / 7.62 NATO remains a workhorseround for police/sniper work.

1:04:31 – 1:12:45 — Lethal force policy + faith, humanity,and carrying the darkness

Jeremy lays out the FBI lethal-force standard (necessity +probable cause + imminent threat), and how faith shapes his view of bothvictims and offenders.

1:14:29 – 1:26:17 — Coming home, retirement, and why hewrote the book

A powerful closing stretch: how to “reset in the driveway,”why leaving the team can be emotionally crushing, and how journaling turned into "Send Me".

Jake talks with filmmaker/advocate Eli Yetter-Bowman about how learning his hometown Wilmington, NC had been drinking PFAS-contaminated water (publicly revealed in 2017) pushed him into documentary work—and into confronting PFAS (“forever chemicals”) exposure in the fire service. They cover why storytelling can turn complex science into action, the realities of funding independent documentaries, how Burned became a major impact campaign, and why Eli’s feature ** GenX ** will be released primarily through in-person screenings to drive change.

0:00 – 5:31 — Intro + Eli’s path into advocacy filmmaking; GenX as the origin story behind Burned.
5:32 – 12:36 — Wilmington’s PFAS water crisis + why “invisible” contamination is hard to grasp without story.
12:37 – 16:41 — Personal driver: Eli’s mom’s autoimmune neurological illness + the “root cause” view of public health.
16:43 – 28:13 — Funding the work: why crowdfunding/investors weren’t the answer; the grind of donor fundraising.
28:14 – 32:57 — Why GenX took 8 years; how turnout-gear PFAS urgency paused the feature and sped up Burned.
32:58 – 41:30 — Turning film into a movement: Burned campaign impact (1500+ in-person events) + lessons in change-making.
41:30 – 45:47 — What departments can do now: proactive screenings, gear replacement organizing, and how to follow GenX.

Resources:

• genxthefilm.org — newsletter, screening requests, tour updates

• ⁠https://etherealfilms.org/ — team + project info

• Their Substack/newsletter (via the sites)

Chad Costa, Assistant Fire Chief at Petaluma Fire Department, has over 25 years of experience in municipal, rural, and wildland fire operations. In this episode of Hazard Class Podcast, he shares his journey from growing up in rural Sonoma County to becoming a seasoned leader in the fire service. Chief Costa discusses early career challenges, recruitment and retention issues, and the balance between structural and wildland firefighting. With insights on leadership, community involvement, and the evolving fire service, he offers advice for aspiring firefighters and emphasizes the importance of building a strong, well-rounded department.

www.chadcosta.org

[0:00 - 2:00] – Introduction
Introduction to Chief Chad Costa and his role. Overview of his career and background.

[2:01 - 7:26] – Why the Fire Service?
Chief Costa talks about his rural upbringing and how a friend’s encouragement led him to pursue firefighting, despite having no prior connection to the field.

[7:26 - 8:55] – Early Career Challenges
His first volunteer experience and the challenges he faced in gaining acceptance and building his skills.

[8:56 - 9:56] – Lessons from Early Days
The importance of hard work, reliability, and building relationships in the fire service.

[9:57 - 12:22] – Instilling Values in New Firefighters
Chief Costa discusses how he imparts core values like dedication and reliability to new recruits and the challenges of hiring firefighter-paramedics.

[12:23 - 15:30] – Recruitment Challenges
The evolving challenges in attracting and retaining qualified firefighter-paramedics in today’s job market.

[15:30 - 16:16] – The Changing Landscape
How the fire service has evolved, with new generations of recruits leaning more towards tech roles than traditional blue-collar jobs.

[16:16 - 20:27] – Becoming a Firefighter
The path to becoming a firefighter, emphasizing education, certification, and gaining experience. Chief Costa stresses the importance of mentorship and decision-making.

[20:27 - 24:16] – Balancing Wildland & Structural Firefighting
The difficulty in excelling at both wildland and structural firefighting and how departments balance these two critical disciplines.

[24:17 - 31:39] – Transition from Volunteer to Career Firefighter
Chief Costa reflects on his transition from volunteer to career firefighter and the steps required to build a successful career.

[31:40 - 38:37] – Promotion and Career Growth
How Chief Costa knew it was time for promotion and the role of the organization in making these decisions.

[38:39 - 41:35] – Leadership and Feedback
The challenges of staying connected with frontline firefighters and how Chief Costa seeks feedback to refine his leadership.

[41:36 - 42:36] – Handling Criticism
How Chief Costa processes both positive and negative feedback and adjusts his leadership style accordingly.

[42:36 - 46:03] – Department Morale
Chief Costa discusses how morale is managed at various levels of the department and strategies for fixing morale issues within a fire service organization.

[46:04 - 49:00] – Balancing Service and Budget
The challenge of maintaining high-quality service while managing a department’s budget, especially with dual-role firefighter paramedics.

[49:00 - 57:11] – Dual Role vs. Single Role EMS
A discussion on the pros and cons of dual-role firefighter paramedics and the push towards single-role EMS services as a solution to firefighter burnout.

[57:12 - 1:00:21] – Career Reflections and Legacy
Chief Costa reflects on his proudest achievements, including creating a career camp for high school students interested in the fire service.

[1:00:21 - End] – Closing Thoughts
Chief Costa shares his future plans and final advice for those entering the fire service.