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Jaron Wharton—a former brigade commander in the 82nd Airborne Division and co-editor of Bend but Do Not Break joins Joe to examine the future of the all-volunteer force and the role of professional discourse in strengthening the military.

Joe and Jaron discuss how education and self-study shape better leaders, why intellectual curiosity is essential in command, and how stepping outside of purely tactical experiences helps leaders avoid what Joe describes as a “soda straw” view of the world. They also reflect on the dangers of groupthink inside hierarchical organizations and the responsibility leaders have to create space for dissenting ideas.

Throughout the conversation, they explore the growing disconnect between the military and the society it serves, the risks of an emerging “warrior caste,” and why service must be valued beyond just those in uniform.

Joe and Jaron also discuss:

• Why education prepares leaders not just for success—but for failure
• The danger of an “anti-intellectual bend” in the military
• How groupthink develops—and how leaders can actively fight it
• Why publishing isn’t the goal—promoting conversation is
• The risks of a widening civil-military gap
• Why service should be celebrated across all professions—not just the military
• The importance of giving junior leaders a voice in shaping the profession
• What it might take to mobilize society for large-scale conflict

Whether you’re a junior leader trying to find your voice, a senior leader thinking about the future of the force, or someone simply interested in the relationship between the military and society, this episode offers a thoughtful and challenging look at where we are—and where we may be headed.

Also, check out Bend but Do Not Break, with proceeds supporting Wear Blue: Run to Remember.

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Dunedain Systems is a veteran-founded defense technology company building Warmind, an AI platform that accelerates military planning, operations, and document generation. Warmind connects to your unit’s data and learns how your warfighting function operates, delivering outputs tailored to your SOPs and operational context rather than generic AI responses. Whether your team is building OPORDs, running intel workflows, or generating CONOPs, Warmind handles the heavy lift so your staff can focus on decisions, not paperwork. Built by combat veterans who lived the problem firsthand, Warmind is already in use across SOCOM and the broader DoD. The beta is free for anyone with a .mil or .edu email at dunedainsystems.com.

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.

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Andy Yakulis—West Point graduate, former Army pilot, and Special Operations officer turned defense tech entrepreneur—joins Joe to talk about leadership, transition, and the rapidly changing nature of modern warfare.

Recruited to West Point just days before September 11th, Andy entered the Army knowing he would serve during a generation defined by war. After flying Kiowa Warrior helicopters and spending nearly a decade in Special Operations, he became increasingly frustrated with the gap between the technology soldiers used in combat and what existed in the civilian world.

Together, they discuss Andy’s decision to leave the Army at 18 years to start Vector, a company focused on unmanned systems, as well as the challenges of military transition, the realities of leadership in the private sector, and how paying attention to what captures your curiosity might reveal the work you’re meant to pursue.

Watch the full interview on YouTube!

Joe and Andy also discuss:

• Why physical fitness and sleep still shape Andy’s decision-making as a CEO
• The value of civilian education for military leaders
• The “Saturday morning coffee test” for discovering what you’re passionate about
• Why veterans shouldn’t feel pressure to find the perfect post-military job immediately
• The challenge of leading teams in the private sector
• Why the future of warfare may shift from one operator controlling one drone to one operator orchestrating many

Whether you’re transitioning out of the military, exploring entrepreneurship, or curious how technology is changing warfare, this episode offers insights on leadership, innovation, and pursuing work you feel called to do.

A Special Thanks to Our Sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Dunedain Systems is a veteran-founded defense technology company building Warmind, an AI platform that accelerates military planning, operations, and document generation. Warmind connects to your unit’s data and learns how your warfighting function operates, delivering outputs tailored to your SOPs and operational context rather than generic AI responses. Whether your team is building OPORDs, running intel workflows, or generating CONOPs, Warmind handles the heavy lift so your staff can focus on decisions, not paperwork. Built by combat veterans who lived the problem firsthand, Warmind is already in use across SOCOM and the broader DoD. The beta is free for anyone with a .mil or .edu email at dunedainsystems.com.

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.

Logistics Systems Incorporated (LSI) is a Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small Business supporting DoD and federal civilian agencies with enterprise IT operations, global logistics support, cybersecurity, data, and mission support services. Founded by a veteran Army leader, LSI is known for operating inside

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Randy Surles—retired Army Ranger and Green Beret turned editor, ghostwriter, and Story Grid-certified book coach—joins Joe to talk directly to veterans who feel called to tell their story but don’t know where to start.

After 25 years in Special Operations, Randy transitioned from the military to the writing world, studying under Shawn Coyne and helping dozens of veterans turn their experiences into memoirs, leadership books, and fiction. Along the way, he’s seen what works—and what doesn’t.

Joe reflects on his own year-and-a-half journey working with Randy on his forthcoming book—including the uncomfortable but necessary process of clarifying the message, identifying the right reader, and moving beyond “I just want to write a book” to “Here’s who this is for.”

Randy explains why most military memoirs never gain traction, why writing “for everyone” is the fastest way to reach no one, and how to identify the single reader you’re actually trying to serve. He also breaks down the realities of publishing—from traditional deals to hybrid models to self-publishing—and why marketing is often harder than writing.

Watch the full interview on YouTube!

Joe and Randy also discuss:

• How the Hero’s Journey mirrors a military career
• The power of identifying your single audience member (SAM)
• Why most books sell fewer than 500 copies
• What veterans misunderstand about traditional publishing
• The truth about hybrid publishers and upfront costs
• Why building an email list may matter more than social media followers
• How writing 600–700 words a week can turn into a finished book
• Why accountability (even the annoying kind) makes the difference

Whether you’re transitioning out, reflecting on your career, or feeling the quiet pull to capture your experiences before they fade, this episode offers a practical roadmap—and a reality check—for veterans who want to turn their story into something that serves others. Also, check out Randy's website: Militaryeditor.com

A Special Thanks to Our Sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.

Logistics Systems Incorporated (LSI) is a Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small Business supporting DoD and federal civilian agencies with enterprise IT operations, global logistics support, cybersecurity, data, and mission support services. Founded by a veteran Army leader, LSI is known for operating inside complex, high-consequence environments where leadership, discipline, and execution matter. Their teams support large user communities and mission-critical systems across defense and civilian agencies.