From CIA Spy to Zen Master: Lee Carlson's 15 Year Student-teacher Relationship with Peter Matthiessen

A beautiful, intimate conversation with longtime Zen practitioner and author Lee Carlson about his 15-year student-teacher relationship with the legendary Peter Matthiessen (author of The Snow Leopard, Paris Review founder, and former CIA operative turned Sōtō Zen master).

Lee shares how Matthiessen helped him navigate profound openings — including a life-altering loving-kindness (metta) experience where the entire room dissolved into pure interconnected energy — and what it truly means to study with an awakened teacher.

From the paradoxes of Zen, the importance of sangha, the transformative power of the breath, and Matthiessen’s gentle reminder that “at the end of the day, just teach them how to breathe,” this episode is medicine for anyone walking a contemplative path or longing for authentic transmission in a teacher-student relationship.

0:00 – Welcome & technical difficulties

0:25 – Who is Lee Carlson? (25 years of Zen, journalism → authorship)

1:01 – Peter Matthiessen: The Snow Leopard, Paris Review, and the early Western Zen wave

3:52 – The CIA backstory & how people (including Matthiessen) changed

9:28 – Sōtō vs Rinzai, compassion in Zen, and stripping away the extras

14:35 – The Beat Generation, Dharma Bums, and the 1960s–70s spiritual explosion

18:18 – Zen is big on heart & love (despite the minimalist reputation)

19:49 – The irreplaceable value of a real teacher + sangha

23:29 – Wise friendship is the whole of the path (Buddha to Ānanda)

30:07 – Dokusan, eye-to-eye interviews, and life as practice

31:27 – The life-changing metta opening: the room dissolves into one bright pearl

35:21 – Peter’s response: “Oh, how wonderful” + Dōgen’s “The whole world is one bright pearl”

38:03 – Where to find Lee and his book

39:37 – Peter’s final teaching: “At the end of the day, just teach them how to breathe”

40:45 – Closing blessing

https://leecarlson.life

A Single Excellent Night: A Man, a Mentor, and a Moment in Time:

https://www.amazon.com/Single-Excellent-Night-Mentor-Moment/dp/B0FTTP6DFT/

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