Six years after his first appearance on Founder Views, Luca is back with the real story of how AI forced a full business model and go-to-market shift.

Customerly went from a seat-based, product-led support platform for small SaaS teams to an AI-first customer service engine selling into mid-market and enterprise, where volume and ROI are obvious.

In this episode we get into:

• The AI pivot: why they refused to build “old-school chatbots,” and how ChatGPT changed what was possible
• Quality metrics that matter: error rate, confidence thresholds, escalation triggers, and why AI CSAT can be higher than humans
• What actually trains a good AI agent: knowledge base structure, what not to upload, and how hallucinations happen in the real world
• Automation outcomes: average ticket closure rates, what drives 80%+ vs 40–50%, and how teams improve over time
• Enterprise GTM shift: moving from product-led to sales-led, filtering signups, longer cycles, bigger ACV
• Outbound reality: why the agency failed, what changed when they built outbound internally, and the tooling stack (Clay, Apollo, Lemlist, Pipedrive)
• Founder sales lessons: Challenger Sale thinking and why founders still need to own sales early

The Arena
The Arena is a private Skool community for SaaS founders who are actively building and selling. I share real-time decisions, experiments, and assets as I use them while growing a bootstrapped SaaS.

No theory. No polish. Just execution.
Learn more at: https://www.skool.com/the-arena/

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Reunion after 6 years and what changed (COVID + AI era)
01:27 – Luca intro: what Customersly does today
02:30 – From $100K ARR to near $1M and why pricing changed
05:08 – “Chatbots are shit”: how they built AI without the bad UX
07:10 – Under 1% error rate and reducing hallucinations
09:52 – Grounded AI, intents, and automating beyond FAQs
11:09 – Closure rate benchmarks and what “good” looks like
16:41 – How to pick an AI support tool that actually works
18:20 – Training mistakes: transcripts, clutter, and marketing banners causing hallucinations
20:46 – Confidence thresholds and escalation as a feedback loop
22:48 – How long it takes to move from 45% to 70–80% automation
24:34 – Should AI learn from your inbox? Pros, risks, and why they avoid it
29:41 – Implementation timelines: small teams vs enterprise rollouts
31:38 – Why AI CSAT can beat humans (speed wins)
35:46 – Escalation rules: human request, sentiment, low confidence, missing info
37:21 – Going enterprise: ARPU jump and sales-led reality
41:02 – Outbound experiment: agency failure and building it internally
43:32 – LinkedIn ads + Clay targeting + the masterclass lead magnet
49:25 – Challenger Sale and shifting the conversation
53:20 – Founder lesson: why you can’t outsource what you haven’t done
58:54 – Outbound stack: Clay, Apollo, Lemlist, Sales Nav, Pipedrive
01:05:12 – 2026 vision and wrap

How do you take a niche SaaS product from zero to $150k MRR in under two years — without venture capital?

In this episode of Founder Views, Kosta Panagoulias sits down with Nadav Boaz, co-founder of VoiceDrop, to break down exactly how they scaled fast by combining cold email mastery, SEO execution, and ruthless operational discipline.

This isn’t theory. Nadav shares what actually worked — and what didn’t — across dozens of past businesses before VoiceDrop finally clicked.

We cover:

• How VoiceDrop reached $150k MRR with a lean, remote team
• The exact 3 growth channels they double down on (and why)
• How cold email is used strategically — not spammy
• SEO tactics that helped them rank #1 and show up in AI search
• Why pre-authorizing trial users increased conversions from 12% → 50%
• Managing churn in a high-ticket SaaS
• Why “usage” matters more than logins
• Lessons from running (and failing) dozens of businesses before success

If you’re a SaaS founder focused on execution, leverage, and real growth, this episode delivers.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Why VoiceDrop caught Kosta’s attention
02:00 – What VoiceDrop does (ringless voicemail explained)
04:00 – Team size, remote setup, and founder roles
07:00 – Using past businesses as leverage for new SaaS launches
10:20 – The 3 growth pillars: SEO, cold email, Google Ads
13:30 – SEO execution: keywords, authority, and SOPs with VAs
16:00 – Ranking in AI search (ChatGPT, Gemini, etc.)
18:10 – Cold email infrastructure that actually works
22:00 – Targeting, segmentation, and ARPU strategy
26:00 – When SEO overtook outbound as the #1 channel
27:00 – Boosting trial-to-paid conversion to 50%
30:00 – Pre-authorization: filtering tire-kickers
32:00 – Human vs product-led conversions
36:00 – Using AI inside the product (voice cloning, scripts)
39:00 – AI for outbound replies and internal leverage
41:30 – Scaling fast without burning out as a founder
45:30 – Customer support, tooling, and cost control
50:00 – Managing churn in a high-ticket SaaS
53:30 – The single metric Nadav watches daily
54:20 – Favorite business book & lifestyle choices
56:20 – One billboard lesson for SaaS founders

👉 Hard Knock SaaS is a practical video series for SaaS founders who want real-world playbooks — not theory.
Built from my experience bootstrapping, scaling, and exiting SaaS companies, it covers sales, positioning, pricing, and execution.
Learn more at: https://hardknocksaas.com

Gladys Jeannette is a real estate investor and Broker in El Salvador. I've been wanting to speak to someone on the ground in El Salvador for quite some time, and Gladys is the perfect person to get an insider's look into the changes happening in the country.

We dive deep into the life in El Salvador, real estate investing in the country, including which areas to keep an eye out for, how bitcoin is driving change, safety, and the way of life in the country.

If you've been keeping an eye on El Salvador, curious about the changes happening in the country, real estate, or bitcoin, this is the perfect episode for you.

Adam Niman (BSc, CLU) is a seasoned life insurance professional with over a decade of experience in the field. His focus is exclusively on insurance, and he advocates for keeping insurance and investments separate.

I first heard Adam on one of my favourite podcasts (see link below), talking about why the infinite banking concept is flawed. He raised some pretty eye-opening concerns and perspectives that stirred up some waves in the infinite banking circles.

Since first hearing Adam on that podcast, we've since had several conversations, and wanted to have him on the podcast. I definitely think his insights and message is worth sharing.

If you're familiar with infinite banking, have a policy, or thinking about getting setup, this is an episode you definitely want to hear.

Download Adam's ebook "Fortune or Fiction" here: https://fortuneorfiction.ca/

➡️ The most important lessons from growing and selling a bootstrapped SaaS company, from a non-technical entrepreneur: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/ (use HUSTLE40 for 40% off).

Matheus Riolfi is the founder and CEO of tint.ai, a company that provides embeddable insurance to tech platforms and marketplaces.

Unlike most founders I speak to that are bootstrapped - Matheus followed a different journey. Launching in 2018, Matheus led his company through YC (Y Combinator), and most recently closed a $25 million Series A round.

We cover several topics, including:

- Why he chose to get funding, rather than bootstrap
- How Tint maintains a positive workplace culture as a fully remote team
- How his role as CEO continues to evolve
- The most important skills a new founder should possess
- Much more

Follow Matheus Riolfi on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mriolfi/
Check out Tint: https://www.tint.ai/

** The most important lessons from growing and selling a bootstrapped SaaS company, from a non-technical entrepreneur: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/ (use HUSTLE40 for 40% off).

Stefan Smulders is one of the best marketers I've spoken to. In 2019, he founded expandio.io, and was able to generate $1 million in run rate in the first six months after launch!

Continuing to leverage creative and effective marketing strategies on social media, Stefan is leading Expandi to hit $10 million in revenue by the end of 2023.

This was a fascinating conversation, and I encourage any startup founder or anyone in marketing to give it a listen. We touch on several topics, including:

- Learning and growing from past business failures
- How Expandi hit $1 million run-rate in the first six months
- Leveraging your personal brand to grow your business
- The psychology of sales
- Effective growth channels used to reach $10 million revenue
- Much more

Follow Stefan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SmuldersStefan

Download the e-book "From Zero to SaaS Hero: https://expandi.io/from-zero-to-saas-hero-ebook/

The person I credit to introducing me to the Infinite Banking Concept, is none other than Chris Naugle.

After hearing this episode, you'll quickly understand why Chris is considered "America's # 1 Money Mentor". He is truly a master of money.

Chris has built and owned 19 companies, with his businesses being featured in Forbes, ABC, House Hunters, and his very own HGTV pilot in 2018. He is currently founder of The Money School™, and Money Mentor for The Money Multiplier.

We dive into so many important money and financial topics, including:

- The reasons why Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) and other banks are collapsing
- Financial opportunities that everyone can be taking advantage of today
- How to become your own banker (literally) using the Infinite Banking Concept
- How Chris is personally leveraging his Infinite Banking Policies to make investments and earn income
- Ways to protect yourself from financial collapse
- How to be free and independent from a corrupted financial system

Follow Chris on YouTube: @TheChrisNaugle
Learn more about Chris: https://www.chrisnaugle.com/

This was a fun conversation. Two bootstrapped entrepreneurs talking shop, growth and business - unfiltered.

Hoyin Cheung is the founder and CEO of Remo.co, a company that helps teams build and grow relationships, virtually.

I've been eager to learn more about the virtual reality space, and how invested companies actually are in implementing this technology. So when the opportunity arose to speak to Hoyin, I jumped on it.

Very impressively, as a solo founder, Hoyin bootstrapped Remo to over $4M+ in revenue, with a team of 25 people. Some of the biggest organizations in the world have used Remo, including Harvard University, IBM and Shopify.

We touch on several topics in this episode including:

- Connecting with team members working remotely
- How companies are leveraging virtual reality
- Trends in the VR space
- The social behaviour challenge to VR adoption
- Tactical ways Remo has been able to scale
- Challenges of growing a company during times of high inflation and economic uncertainty
- Future of VR

Check out Remo: https://remo.co/
Follow Hoyin on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hoyincheung/

** Get 40% of my video content series with code HUSTLE40: https://www.hardknocksaas.com/