Today we’re tackling a topic that's kept too many women trapped in painful marriages: divorce. If you've ever been told "God hates divorce" or made to feel like leaving your abusive husband is somehow worse than what he's doing to you, this episode is specifically for you.

We’ll dig into some fascinating research by Dr. Valerie Hobbs on how conservative Christian sermons frame divorce - and let me tell you, what's being preached often doesn't match reality.

Here's what you'll discover in this episode:

• The surprising biblical truth about divorce, including the fact that God Himself got a divorce (Jeremiah 3:8) and what this means for women in harmful marriages
• How common Bible verses about divorce are routinely misinterpreted and weaponized against women seeking safety and freedom
• The shocking difference between why women initiate divorce (abuse, infidelity, and substance abuse) versus men's reasons (falling out of love, different lifestyles)
• How the ancient marriage certificate (ketubah) actually protected women's rights and gave them grounds for divorce - completely changing how we should understand Jesus' teachings

This isn't just theological debate - this is about real women making heart-wrenching decisions every day. I've walked this path myself, and I know the spiritual anguish of believing God wants you to stay in a destructive marriage.

If you're questioning what you've been taught about divorce, experiencing emotional or spiritual abuse, or supporting someone who is, please listen to this episode. You'll discover that God cares about your emotional and spiritual safety and wellbeing, and that leaving an abusive marriage just might be the most faithful thing you can do.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Dr. Valerie Hobbs' groundbreaking study that I used for this episode, "The Discourse of Divorce in Conservative Christian Sermons."
• Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may be interested in: “God Doesn’t Hate ALL Divorce,” “How Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?” and “How To Tell Your Kids You’re Getting Divorced.”

Coming June 2025: The Divorced Christian Woman Podcast!
This is our last Flying Higher moment as we are gearing up to begin production of our new podcast! Find out what we'll be talking about in our first season!
(Don't worry, the Flying Free podcast will continue to serve up hope and healing for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships right here every Tuesday afternoon!)

Go to flyingfreeworkshop.com to register for our $1 workshop: Is It Abuse? (or am I just being too sensitive?)

On today’s episode, I’m talking with Dr. Andrew Bauman—licensed mental health counselor, author, and founder of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. We’re digging into his powerful new book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities, and whew…this one’s going to name things you’ve felt for years but maybe never had words for.

This episode is a raw, no-fluff look at what’s really happening behind the stained-glass windows:

• 82% of women say sexism shaped their church experience—and 35% report sexual harassment. Let that sink in.
• How twisted theology has been used to minimize abuse, silence women, and turn forgiveness into a weapon
• Real, doable steps churches can take to stop being breeding grounds for harm and start becoming actually safe
• Why men in leadership must do their own deep healing before they can lead anyone else
• The holy importance of listening to your gut, your body, and your sacred knowing when something just feels off

If you've ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” felt erased in your own spiritual community, or wondered why abusers get protected while survivors get blamed—this conversation will wrap you in validation and truth.

Dr. Bauman speaks as someone who’s been on both sides of this story. And his message? You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. And the God you love is nothing like the systems that harmed you.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Read Dr. Bauman’s newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.
• Connect with Dr. Bauman on Facebook.
• Check out Dr. Bauman’s blog.
• Like what you heard today? Listen to Episode 41 and Episode 164 of the Flying Free Podcast with Dr. Andrew Bauman, and then head over to Episode 45 and Episode 279 to hear my interviews with his wife, Christy Bauman.

Guest Bio:

Founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma. Dr. Bauman is a therapist & author of 7 books including his newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.