How do you build a data team that actually drives business outcomes?

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Sebastian Hewing, Data & AI Advisor to C-Level leaders in VC and PE-backed companies, and ex-Rocket Internet, to uncover what most companies get wrong about building and scaling data teams. From startup chaos to structured experimentation, Sebastian shares his three-step consulting framework, lessons from over 40 implementations, and what it really takes to empower “super users” and stop being a dashboard factory. If you’re a data leader, growth marketer, or founder tired of surface-level advice, this episode is your blueprint.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Most companies suffer from solution-first thinking instead of problem-first frameworks
• Data teams need to be business-driven, not just tech-stacked
• Hiring analytics engineers early enables speed, clarity, and better decisions
• “Super users” are the missing link between tech and business
• Sebastian uses a 3-step productized consulting approach: Discover, Build, Empower
• Complexity isn’t just technical, it’s human, organizational, and strategic
• AI can supercharge teams, but only when tied to real pain points
• Founders, CMOs, and CTOs feel different “data pains” at different company stages
• Scaling data teams requires repeatable playbooks, not custom chaos
• The Data Collective was built to fix the mentorship gap and noise in data leadership

BEST MOMENTS

00:00:04. “We had this solution-first thinking, while we should have had problem-first thinking.”
00:01:06. “So one thing I want to first jump into is... how do you build a data team?”
00:03:23. “CTOs have to ship product, but end up fixing broken spaghetti queries.”
00:05:29. “The higher the marketing budget, the more you can gain with proper data stuff.”
00:08:25. “Step three is where I empower the organization to use that data foundation.”
00:13:02. “The super user is a business stakeholder who can self-serve 80% of the time.”
00:16:07. “They don’t have any skin in the game. The marketing manager does.”
00:20:12. “People say this analytics engineer doesn’t exist, but I’ve never had an issue finding one.”
00:26:48. “My vision is a context-aware analytics agent that knows your goals and actions.”
00:40:17. “The wrong way is: let me put AI into everything. The right way is: pick one real problem.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

🎯 Is your marketing KPI lying to you?

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Russell Tischler, VP of Marketing at Fundrise, to dismantle the myth of “good enough” metrics. From building predictive models that forecast investor behavior to questioning the ROI of lift tests, Russell shares hard-earned lessons from his time at Uber and Fundrise.

If you're a B2C marketer, data scientist, or growth leader wondering how to prioritize the right metrics without wasting time or budget, this episode will completely reframe your thinking.

Get ready for deep insight, no fluff, and some well-earned hot takes.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
• Shallow KPIs are often misleading and can hold back meaningful growth
• Fundrise built a day-90 model to better predict long-term investor value
• The 90-day predictive model offered better accuracy than day-1 projections
• High-capacity investors often start small, making early conversion data deceptive
• Fundrise balances low-dollar, high-volume vs. high-dollar, low-volume acquisition channels
• Direct mail is unexpectedly powerful for trust and high-value targeting
• First-touch attribution is underrated, especially for category-creating businesses
• Startups should optimize for speed of learning, not perfect measurement
• Most lift tests aren’t worth running if the gain is under 10%
• The best growth moves feel obvious, no stats needed to prove it

BEST MOMENTS

00:01:11. “Something I'm very passionate about is choosing the right KPI.”
00:01:59. “What I do is use too shallow of a metric, and I’ve tried to help move us further into the customer journey.”
00:03:07. “How do we differentiate when we’re acquiring one of the 20% that's super valuable versus someone who churns quickly?”
00:04:43. “You can see where only looking at somebody's conversion behavior can be misguided.”
00:06:05. “The best growth marketers deeply understand the business and analytics, not just KPIs.”
00:09:02. “We started with wanting a 12-month payback period... the cost per dollar fundraising target.”
00:16:18. “We've been able to be pretty accurate by combining the human element with the model approach.”
00:26:42. “Direct mail has been awesome for large investors, really credentializing.”
00:38:06. “Almost any time we've done something really successful, it’s just obvious.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

What if product marketing was the secret weapon your growth strategy is missing?

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Damian Valdes, Associate Director of Product Marketing at Spotify, to reveal why product marketers are often the most underutilized force in tech. From launching features like Spotify Jam to designing internal growth experiments, Damian breaks down how PMMs shape product roadmaps, avoid cannibalization, and influence business outcomes beyond campaign performance.

Whether you're scaling a feature, debating when to hire your first marketer, or trying to find product-market fit, this conversation will change the way you think about marketing’s role in building great products.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
• What product marketers actually do
• Why startups often bring PMMs in too late
• The link between product marketing and product management
• How Spotify PMMs balance campaign work with feature development
• The risk of muddy messaging in wide product portfolios
• How Damian used the Jobs-To-Be-Done framework to shape product decisions
• How in-app promotions became a growth lever at Spotify
• Why experienced hires matter more than “scrappy generalists” at early stage
• How to prioritize work using the Eisenhower matrix
• The importance of consumer empathy from L’Oréal to Meta to Spotify

BEST MOMENTS
00:02:05. “We serve as the voice of the consumer.”
00:03:17. “It solves the problem around people hogging the chord at a social get together.”
00:05:22. “You run the risk of maybe cannibalizing the two versus because like truly incremental.”
00:06:58. “Product is brand. Brand is product. Consumers don’t differentiate.”
00:10:04. “We included things that weren’t yet launched... that actually informed the product roadmap.”
00:12:55. “Good marketing is strategy. You can’t remove marketing from it.”
00:17:47. “If it’s measurable, then it’s manageable.”
00:27:07. “Spotify is a company that’s willing to take big bets.”
00:35:23. “Beauty is such a personal decision. It says so much about who you are.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Mastering CRM: From Paper Notes to Lifecycle Growth

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar sits down with Karan Tibdewal, The CRM Guy™️ and trusted CRM advisor to top subscription apps. Together, they trace CRM's journey from Rolodex-era notes to today’s role as a strategic lever for growth. Whether you’re leading lifecycle marketing or wondering if CRM is still relevant, this episode reveals what great looks like, what most teams miss, and why onboarding might be completely broken. With practical frameworks and sharp insights, this is CRM like you’ve never heard it before.

Key Takeaways
• CRM started as a Rolodex and has evolved into lifecycle engagement
• The definition of CRM has shifted from sales to relationship management
• Subscription CRM is harder to measure but more relationship-driven
• E-commerce CRM delivers clearer ROI but less long-term impact
• Most onboarding flows are outdated and show no positive ROI
• The difference between onboarding and activation is often misunderstood
• CRM teams fail when siloed and thrive when integrated with product
• Frameworks like Reach, Relevance, Frequency help prioritize CRM work
• Consistency in brand and creative is often overlooked in CRM execution
• The ENCAM framework helps teams build stronger reward programs

Best Moments
00:00:12. “The first CRM tool was in the 1980s. People were doing stuff on the Rolodex or they would have these paper notes.”
00:03:57. “CRM has shifted from buying or not buying, to engagement and personalization.”
00:06:28. “There’s no consistency in what good CRM looks like between companies.”
00:09:21. “CRM in subscriptions means understanding usage and preferences, not just pushing messages.”
00:13:25. “I have never seen a positive ROI from onboarding comms.”
00:15:21. “My moment is not my first workout. It’s when I feel like the program is working.”
00:18:15. “I need to be an Alfred to your Batman. Help you around and understand where you are in your life.”
00:25:08. “At a CRM level, everything you send is a factor of reach, relevance, and frequency.”
00:33:16. “Consistency is everything about keeping them on, keeping them motivated to achieve goals.”
00:41:14. “Usually what I do is… work with teams that have strong growth but underutilized CRM.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Why Brand Building Isn’t Just for CPG: Lessons From Wayfair and Chewy

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar dives into the overlooked pivot from hypergrowth to brand building with Lauren Sutkowski, Head of Brand Marketing at Insurify and former marketing leader at Chewy and Wayfair. This isn't a fluffy chat. It’s a real, practical breakdown of what happens when the growth engine starts sputtering and brand finally takes the wheel. From internal education to channel strategy, Lauren shares what most marketers miss about timing, targeting, and team alignment. If you’ve ever struggled to prove the ROI of brand or wondered when to stop chasing paid search and start building unaided awareness, this one is for you.

Key Takeaways:

• Every consumer-facing team member should know your customer and how they buy
• You can't build a flywheel by chasing only high-intent acquisition
• Slow growth is often the trigger that forces brand investment
• Retention requires deep cross-functional collaboration and clarity
• Price is rarely enough of a differentiator, even with strong CX
• Wayfair succeeded by tightening audience focus on high-LTV segments
• You can’t be everything to everyone and expect retention to work
• Internal brand education needs to touch finance, data, ops, and merch
• YouTube and Meta may be more crutch than brand builders
• Brand impact takes time, patience, and serious measurement commitment

Best Moments:

00:03:18. “Isn't it just keep paying for those customers like you're not really...there's no way to build this strong flywheel.”
00:05:07. “Growth had slowed...it felt like we had started to plateau.”
00:09:10. “A bit more storytelling, a bit more just like, solving their problems.”
00:12:27. “I want to feel like I'm aligning myself with a brand I fully believe in.”
00:14:39. “This is how we retain them. It's not just price point.”
00:17:00. “If you say too many things to your customers, it's a great way to tell them nothing.”
00:19:19. “I think the biggest thing starts with internal education.”
00:34:51. “You can hide not knowing who your audience is really well in those platforms.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Assumption Audit: The Step Most Marketers Skip

Most marketing failures don’t stem from bad creative, poor media buys, or weak strategy. They start earlier, at the assumption level. In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Oliver Raskin, Head of Research at Miro and former insights lead at Meta and Uber, to break down why assumptions kill great ideas and how marketers can audit them before launching campaigns. They explore the difference between optimism and magical thinking, why misalignment festers in kickoff meetings, and how to rewire processes to avoid costly mistakes. If you’ve ever wondered why “obvious” campaigns flop, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways
• Research is part inspo, part reality check, part insurance policy
• Most marketing starts by solutioning instead of defining the real problem
• Assumptions around audience, channels, and timing go unchecked
• Kickoffs are the hidden leverage point in campaign success
• "Pay now or pay later" is the cost of skipping alignment
• Research isn’t slow, bad process is
• Clarity of goal always surfaces hidden disagreements
• Synthetic audiences and qualitative at scale are changing research
• Surveys are dying, and that’s a good thing
• Messaging must map clearly from assertion to belief

Best Moments
00:02:20. “This role is part inspo, part reality check, and part like insurance policy.”
00:04:52. “Each piece that you’ve made a wrong assumption on chips away at your likelihood of being successful.”
00:07:18. “These are people problems, not data problems.”
00:09:10. “You relitigate these decisions over and over again because they probably needed to have been litigated properly once.”
00:11:12. “We’re already solutioning at this point.”
00:17:05. “Be explicit about all the things that need to be true in order for that outcome to be reached.”
00:28:47. “I’ll put you on the right trail. You’ll have to do a lot of iteration to get up the mountain, but at least you’re climbing the right mountain.”
00:41:20. “It’s the why, what, and how of your pyramid.”
00:54:55. “Take the time to make your assumptions explicit. It might feel uncomfortable, but it’s worth it.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Gen Z Marketing Strategy That Actually Converts

In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Claudia from Howbout, the fast-growing social calendar app that's cracked the Gen Z code. With a mix of irreverent humor and sharp strategy, Claudia reveals how Howbout builds product and marketing with Gen Z in mind, why authenticity trumps polish, and why TikTok is more than just a channel. It’s a feedback loop. They unpack how Gen Z thinks, what makes them convert, and why influencer marketing might not be the golden ticket people think it is.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Gen Z users are digital natives who expect authenticity, not polish
• Traditional ad tactics like logos and slogans don’t resonate
• Message testing on TikTok helped validate product features before launch
• Shares and comment tags are leading indicators of campaign success
• Gen Z can detect ads instantly and tune them out
• Brands must act like peers, not authorities
• Being transparent about the team behind a product builds trust
• Feature adoption improves when messaging reflects user language
• Gen Z leaves apps fast if the product doesn’t fit their social behavior
• Virality comes from resonance, not production value

BEST MOMENTS

00:00:02. “Friends can be themselves, but they're choosing not to. They're choosing to be something different.”
00:00:16. “From what we've seen of Gen Z, they will leave your app as quickly as they join.”
00:01:25. “You know, one of the biggest reasons of your success is your ability to build product and and build marketing to generation Z.”
00:03:11. “They kind of just want to figure out the story themselves, and they want to believe it.”
00:05:05. “We're a social calendar app that makes it easier for you to keep up with your friends.”
00:07:14. “It got like 14 million views, like hundreds of thousands of comments of people tagging their friends.”
00:08:48. “We posted kind of a few videos with different features and trying to kind of see if anything resonated.”
00:14:33. “The most interesting one is kind of on our organic socials.”
00:26:11. “If I feel that way, Gen Z feels like that times a million.”
00:30:25. “I would have a whole pre campaign set up where we're kind of teeing up something really ridiculous for our followers.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Building Marketplaces with Data: What We Learned at Uber and Faire

On this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar is joined by Gopal Nath, Director of Strategy and Analytics at Faire and former Marketing Analytics Lead at Uber. Together, they explore the data-backed decisions that shaped two of the world’s most dynamic marketplaces. From measuring efficiency to testing branded search strategy, this episode breaks down how growth actually happens behind the scenes. Expect tactical takeaways, sharp insight, and a few laughs as Sundar and Gopal reconnect and reflect on lessons from Uber, Faire, and life in between.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
• Efficiency means balancing ROI with payback periods, not chasing perfection
• Uber’s marketplace matured by shifting from growth-first to ROI-first models
• Strategic finance teams need embedded marketing context to partner effectively
• Paid marketing is a two-way door, you can turn it off, learn, and turn it back on
• Pre-post tests still work when applied with high intent and channel focus
• Branded search efficiency varies by region and even by language nuance
• B2C and B2B marketplaces share similar dynamics on both sides of the platform
• Culture impacts data science effectiveness, ego-free collaboration drives scale
• Faire prioritizes truth-seeking and kindness as core hiring and cultural values
• Family life and high performance can co-exist with flexibility and trust

BEST MOMENTS
00:00:03. “Brand to me is how you become top of mind.”
00:01:33. “I switched over to Faire, leading our marketing analytics team here for both sides of our marketplace.”
00:03:02. “We had a six-line-long definition of efficiency at Uber.”
00:04:49. “Your return might take two and a half or three years to make that money back.”
00:07:28. “Because there’s a dedicated individual, they’re able to learn quickly about marketing.”
00:12:06. “Let’s double click on that, because I imagine a lot of people are going to be in the situation of...I don’t have the resources.”
00:14:20. “We were able to recoup 99% of the signups.”
00:17:08. “Paid is a two-way door. You can turn it back on and get back to prior efficiencies.”
00:21:25. “You don’t get the zero moment of truth only through having a great product.”
00:28:22. “Focus on that one team, one dream mentality.”

🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.

🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.

📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/

This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com