Ben Hunt returns to Excess Returns to break down the hidden risks building inside private credit and the parallels between today’s “alternative asset managers” and the shadow banking system that triggered the 2008 financial crisis. Using the Godfather’s Tessio as a metaphor for betrayal and broken trust, Ben explains how opacity, leverage, and narrative collapse can turn small defaults into systemic crises. He and Matt Zeigler explore what’s really happening beneath the surface of private markets, how common knowledge shifts shape investor behavior, and how Perscient Pro’s “storyboards” and “semantic signatures” help track the narratives driving markets in real time.

Main topics covered

• Why Ben believes we’re at a “trust-breaking” moment similar to 2007

• The Godfather analogy and what frauds reveal about human behavior

• How private credit has evolved into today’s “shadow banking” system

• Flow machines, hidden leverage, and why opacity is intentional

• The dangers of informational asymmetry between investors and lenders

• How broken trust creates chain reactions in financial systems

• The link between narrative collapse and liquidity crises

• Common knowledge, crowd reactions, and market psychology

• Doom loops between Wall Street and the real economy

• How Perscient Pro tracks financial narratives using semantic signatures

• Why gold’s current rally is about safety, not debasement

• What investors should monitor next in credit, housing, and macro narratives

Timestamps
0:00 Hidden leverage and the trust problem
1:04 Introduction to Ben Hunt and Epsilon Theory
2:12 The Tessio analogy – betrayal and the structure of fraud
6:10 How private credit became today’s shadow banking system
10:55 Flow machines and why opacity is intentional
14:48 Trust breaks and the “funding stops first” dynamic
18:35 The Biden “common knowledge” moment explained
21:00 What happens when narratives collapse
24:26 Apollo, asymmetric information, and shorting First Brands
28:00 Hidden leverage and the domino effects of default
33:40 The “doom loop” between Wall Street and the real economy
39:10 Why Silicon Valley Bank was different
44:18 What a “run on Wall Street” could look like
48:00 Perscient Pro and tracking financial storyboards
53:32 Semantic signatures and narrative detection
57:10 Housing, inflation, and gold storyboards
1:00:48 Where to follow Ben Hunt and learn more about Perscient Pro

In this episode of Excess Returns, Gene Munster and Doug Clinton of Deepwater Asset Management join Justin and Jack to explore the technological, economic, and investing implications of AI. They discuss why they believe we’re still in the early stages of a multi-year bull market driven by AI, how the technology is reshaping jobs and productivity, and what it means for investors. The conversation also covers how companies like Nvidia, Apple, Tesla, and Meta fit into this AI cycle, the energy demands of AI, and the future of AI-driven investing through Intelligent Alpha and its GPT ETF.

Topics covered:
• Why Gene and Doug believe AI represents a once-in-a-generation wealth creation opportunity
• How AI may impact corporate profitability and hiring trends
• The political and social dynamics slowing AI adoption
• Doug’s “detective, people-pleaser, and tastemaker” framework for future human jobs
• How Intelligent Alpha uses large language models to manage portfolios
• The advantages of AI-driven investment models over humans
• Economic and market implications of an AI productivity boom
• The hardware-data-application structure of technological cycles
• The role of energy, especially nuclear and solar, in supporting AI growth
• The competitive race among model providers like OpenAI, Google, and Meta
• Apple’s long-term AI positioning and potential comeback
• Tesla’s valuation, autonomy vision, and the future of robotics
• The inevitability and function of bubbles in breakthrough technologies
• The rise of private markets and retail investor access to innovation
• Future frontiers in quantum computing and biotechnology

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction and Deepwater’s AI thesis
03:00 Why AI marks a multi-year bull market opportunity
08:00 Political reality and limits of AI deployment
11:00 The future of human work: detectives, people-pleasers, tastemakers
16:00 Inside Intelligent Alpha and the GPT ETF
19:00 Why AI can outperform human managers
25:00 How AI affects productivity, margins, and employment
26:00 Hardware, data, and application cycle in AI
28:00 The energy constraint: nuclear, gas, and solar
29:30 The model race: OpenAI, Google, Meta
34:00 Apple’s role and long-term AI potential
39:30 Tesla, autonomy, and long-term disruption
44:00 Are bubbles necessary for technological revolutions?
49:00 Private vs. public investing in innovation
51:00 Beyond AI: quantum computing and life extension technologies
54:45 Closing thoughts

Buy Toby's Bookhttps://amzn.to/478SMBfIn this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Tobias Carlisle, founder and portfolio manager at the Acquirers Fund, and author of the new book “Soldier of Fortune: Warren Buffett’s Sun Tzu and the Ancient Art of Risk Taking.” Tobias joins Matt Zeigler and Bogumil Baranowski to explore how timeless strategic principles from The Art of War apply to investing and how Warren Buffett embodies many of those ideas—from invincibility and victory without conflict to the disciplined avoidance of ruin. The conversation connects Buffett’s real-world decisions—from Apple to General Re to Japan’s trading houses—to broader lessons on temperament, risk, and wisdom in markets.

Main topics covered:
• The three key ideas from The Art of War that define Buffett’s approach: invincibility, victory without conflict, and unassailable strength
• Why Buffett’s General Re acquisition was a misunderstood masterstroke in defensive investing
• How Buffett achieved “victory without conflict” through his massive Apple investment
• The principle of via negativa — succeeding by avoiding mistakes and ruin
• Temperament vs. intellect and the psychology of avoiding self-defeat
• Circle of competence and why simplicity often beats complexity
• Sins of omission vs. sins of commission in investing decisions
• How Buffett applies wu wei (effortless action) through patience and alignment with natural forces
• Lessons from Buffett’s Japanese trading house investments and moral law in business
• The role of reputation, intuition (coup d’œil), and character in long-term investing
• Charlie Munger’s blueprint and the strategic architecture of Berkshire Hathaway

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction and overview of Tobias Carlisle’s key ideas
02:00 Applying Sun Tzu’s “invincibility, victory without conflict, and unassailable strength” to Buffett
06:00 The General Re acquisition as a defensive masterpiece
12:00 Victory without conflict — Buffett’s Apple investment
19:00 The principle of via negativa and avoiding ruin
22:00 Survival, temperament, and controlling emotion in investing
25:00 Circle of competence and the power of simplicity
28:00 Sins of omission vs. sins of commission
32:00 Temperament, intellect, and avoiding self-defeat
40:00 Wu wei and investing with effortless alignment
49:00 Position sizing, concentration, and the Kelly Criterion
50:00 Buffett’s investments in Japan’s trading houses
56:00 Reputation, intuition, and the power of pattern recognition
61:00 Charlie Munger’s blueprint and Buffett’s strategic genius
64:00 Closing thoughts and where to find Tobias online