Ep 113 - Dr. Todd Loushine and Dr. Matt Law - Embracing a Scientific Approach to Safety

In this compelling episode of #ProveItPod, Dr. Todd Loushine and Dr. Matt Law deconstruct traditional safety measurement approaches. They challenge listeners to think critically about how safety is defined, measured, and understood, exploring the complex relationship between data, perception, and workplace safety. Listen now at www.proveitpod.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Key highlights include: Critiquing incident rate methodologies Exploring statistical nuances in safety research Discussing cognitive biases in safety interpretation Demonstrating the limitations of current safety metrics The presenters use real-world examples and academic research to illustrate how our current understanding of safety might be fundamentally flawed. They advocate for a more curious, experimental approach to safety management, emphasizing the importance of challenging assumptions and continuously learning. Perfect for safety professionals, researchers, and anyone interested in understanding the deeper complexities of workplace safety beyond surface-level metrics. Chapters: Introduction of Speakers and Session Overview ‎00:00:48 The moderator, Kelton, introduced Dr. Todd Loushine and Dr. Matt Law as the presenters for the breakout session. Dr. Loushine was described as a certified safety professional with a PhD from Wisconsin, currently an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, and a former compliance safety and health officer. Dr. Matt Law was introduced as a certified safety professional with a doctorate in public health from Walden University, whose dissertation focused on occupational risk perceptions among foreign-born construction workers in central Florida. Dr. Law mentioned his podcast "Prove It To Me," noting that the first full-length episode featured a conversation with Dr. Loushine on the same topics they would be discussing in this session. Scientific Method and Research Fundamentals ‎00:04:34 Dr. Loushine began by explaining that the scientific method is cyclical rather than linear, often involving setbacks and sometimes yielding no results despite significant effort. He emphasized that research is about seeking truth and understanding, not just confirming existing beliefs. Dr. Loushine introduced key research concepts including construct validity (whether one variable truly relates to or causes another), measure reliability, and bias assessment. He stressed the importance of peer-reviewed publications versus non-reviewed content, noting a disconnect between researchers and practitioners in the safety field. Importance of Curiosity in Safety Research ‎00:10:23 Dr. Matt Law emphasized the need for curiosity in safety research, encouraging the audience to question both ideas that align with and contradict their preconceptions. He noted that the safety and health field lacks consensus on the "right way" to do safety, with many approaches (BBS, HOP, Safety One, Safety Two, etc.) having little evidence-based support. Dr. Law framed this as an opportunity for testing and measurement to determine what actually works in improving workplace safety. Challenging Traditional Safety Metrics ‎00:12:16 Dr. Loushine questioned how safety is defined and measured, suggesting that if something can't be measured, its effectiveness can't be established. He presented statistical concepts related to normal distribution and explained why injury data doesn't follow a normal distribution but is asymptotic. Dr. Loushine argued that comparing companies to industry averages using incident rates is problematic because extreme outliers skew the data. He questioned whether judging safety program performance based on injury numbers is appropriate, comparing it to judging driving performance based solely on accidents. Research on OSHA Data Reporting Issues ‎00:27:16 Dr. Loushine shared findings from his published study analyzing seven years of OSHA 300A data, revealing that approximately 12% of submitted reports contained errors or inconsistencies in reported hours worked or employee numbers. These errors significantly impact incident rate calculations since hours worked is the denominator in the formula. After making corrections to the data, Dr. Loushine found that the calculated rates didn't match Bureau of Labor Statistics figures, raising questions about the validity of these metrics. Reinterpreting Heinrich's Pyramid ‎00:32:41 The speakers discussed Heinrich's pyramid (the theory that for every major injury there are numerous minor incidents and near misses), arguing that Heinrich's work has been misinterpreted. Dr. Loushine explained that Heinrich never claimed these incidents were directly related but rather demonstrated the value in understanding near misses and minor incidents that occur more frequently. Dr. Matt Law noted that comparing different types of incidents using different calculation methods doesn't make sense but is often done because "it looks kinda sexy." Correlation vs. ...