David Rug is a metaphysician, civilizational theorist, and visionary storyteller on a journey of transmuting childhood wounds of social fragmentation into memetic medicine for the human family.

Sensitized to the pains of social division and disconnect early in life through his parents' divorce and the increasingly political fracturing of his family field, he set out on a quest to understand the root causes of conflict and miscommunication. While completing his bachelor's degree in physics at Heidelberg University, he discovered GameB and adjacent movements. Through the extraordinarily clear thinking shared by thought leaders in that space, he realized there was, in effect, a "physics of communication"—principles that could be understood and applied to address the challenges he cared most about.

This insight led him to found Project Liminality—an open-source communication and co-creation layer designed to reshape how we share and organize around ideas. A central focus of this work is developing the InterBrain, a novel digital medium aimed at flipping the vector of conflict and fragmentation toward unity and wholeness.

His work combines systems thinking, visionary storytelling, and a deep exploration of the kinds of shared ideas and narratives that can inspire humanity to unite in addressing our greatest challenges and creating the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible.

In this episode, we speak about false progress, psychological warfare, developing a memetic immune system, returning to the spoken word, going from personal knowledge management to collective knowledge gardening, and David’s Interbrain project, which aims to bridge ancient wisdom with modern technology to end fragmentation.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Support Project Liminality and the Building of the Interbrain
• Project Liminality YouTube channel
• The Interbrain - How Collective DreamWeaving Can Heal the World
• Dialectical thinking
• Jordan Hall in conversation with David Rug

🕰️[Time stamps] 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
3:15 - Early experiences of fragmentation and discovering the liminal web
13:47 - The polarities of fragmentation and finding the third attractor
21:10 - The solution has to come from a higher dimension of consciousness
25:22 - False progress, psychological warfare, and developing a memetic immune system
34:52 - A Course in Miracles, Fear vs Love, Specialness vs Uniqueness
41:54 - Building trust networks, returning to the spoken word, and problems of scale
51:21 - From personal knowledge management to collective knowledge gardening
1:08:35 - Reflecting on David’s big insights ( the primacy of symbols, written vs spoken word )
1:14:50 - The practicalities of the Interbrain (how it would work)
1:26:30 - Critiques and challenges of building the Interbrain
1:31:21 - Moving from independence to deep interdependence
1:36:42 - Revolutionizing journalism & politics
1:44:06 - The process of DreamWeaving
1:52:55 - Support David’s work

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Dr. John Churchill is a psychologist, dharma teacher, and the founder of Planetary Dharma – an integrally informed community embracing the vows and path of the Bodhisattva, committed to elevating human consciousness and collective transformation.

John holds a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from William James College and is also a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine. His journey into Buddhist psychology began as a monk at Samye (sam-yay) Ling Monastery in Scotland, where he undertook an in-depth study of Buddhist contemplative practice. He later spent 15 years training and teaching “Great Seal” (Mahamudra) meditation within an Indo-Tibetan Mahayana lineage under the mentorship of Dr. Daniel P. Brown.

John is a founding member of the Integral Institute, led by transpersonal philosopher Ken Wilber, and has received advanced training in attachment therapy, hypnosis, positive psychology for peak performance, and the “Pointing Out” style of Mahamudra meditation. He is also the author of Becoming Buddha: Buddhist Contemplative Psychology in a Western Context.

For the past 25 years, John has been developing what he calls the Fourth Turning Planetary Dharma—a full-spectrum psychospiritual approach that integrates the great Indo-Tibetan traditions with psychodynamic healing and adult development.

In this episode, we discuss the vision of a 4th turning dharma, John’s differences with his teacher Dan Brown, navigating the traditional vs progressive polarity in spirituality, connecting to sacred world, moving into the transrational, transitioning from Buddhism to Sacred Humanism, and so much more.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Learn more about Planetary Dharma
• Follow Planetary Dharma on Instagram
• Follow Planetary Dharma on Facebook
• Planetary Dharma’s Medicine Dharma Course
• Dan Brown
• Ken Wilber
• A.H. Almaas
• Hamilton Souther
• Lama Mike Crowley

🕰️[Time stamps] 🕰️

0:00 - Intro
3:29 - Unpacking the four turnings of Buddhism
9:58 - Further distinguishing the fourth turning
16:09 - Artem’s experience participating in the Planetary Dharma introductory retreat
17:27 - Planetary Dharma’s emphasis on the imaginal and self-image
25:25 - John’s differences with his mentor and teacher Dan Brown
37:56 - Navigating the traditional vs progressive polarities in spirituality
49:01 - Transitioning beyond Buddhism into Sacred Humanism
55:15 - Why modern minds are disconnected from Sacred World
1:02:46 - The pre-trans fallacy and navigating the trans-rational
1:16:17 - The role of psychedelics on the psychospiritual path
1:28:00 - What’s needed to build out a fourth turning academy
1:37:40 - The constraints of a householder and the future of Dharma
1:50:37 - Planetary Dharma offerings

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Ali Tataryn is a counselor, somatic educator, and coach who guides clients through somatic-emotional release and helps them map their internal emotional landscapes for healing and self-development.

She is the founder of Relational Dojo, a welcoming space where kind humans come together to co-create curious and courageous conversations. Ali is also the co-founder of Sacred Somatic Events, a sober somatic dance experience that warmly invites participants into full-spectrum self-expression.

Her primary training is in Counseling, Expressive Arts, and Somatic Education. Ali has completed over 260 hours of Kundalini Yoga Teacher Training and is a trained as T3 Circling Facilitator through the Integral Center.

She is also a meditation teacher certified under Upasaka Culadasa and Junpo Roshi, with extensive personal practice in the Namgyal-Kagyu tradition under teachers such as Lama Lodro, Lama Sidney, Lama Rodney Devinish, and her mother, Dr. Darlene Tataryn. Ali proudly collaborates with her father, clinical psychologist Dr. Douglas J. Tataryn, facilitating and coaching through his Bio-Emotive Framework.

In this episode, we explore Ali’s journey growing up with parents deeply immersed in emotional and spiritual work, her path as an actress and how acting became a form of spiritual practice, navigating identity as an artist, the Bio-Emotive framework and the art of emotional processing, how relational, emotional, and spiritual work come together and so much more.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Ali’s personal site
• The Bio-Emotive Framework
• Follow Ali on Substack
• Follow Douglas Tataryn on Substack
• How to Process Emotions with Douglas Tataryn on the Elevating Consciousness Podcast
• Diane Musho Hamilton
• Leonard Cohen
• What is Circling by Artem Zen

🕰️[Time stamps] 🕰️

0:00 - Introduction
4:00 - Growing up with cycle breakers
7:06 - Good enough parenting and an imperfect life
10:08 - Navigating the self vs other polarity
16:18 - How does a bodhisattva deal with a narcissist?
22:00 - Reconnecting to the good, true, and the beautiful
24:50 - Acting as a spiritual practice vs acting as a career
37:45 - Becoming aware of suffering
40:27 - The thin line between awakening & Psychosis
44:25 - Navigating identity as an Artist
57:02 - The Bio-Emotive Framework & the art of emotional processing
1:08:07 - Emotions are not logical but they are lawful
1:10:57 - Balancing intellectual with emotional and relational development
1:15:49 - Circling (relational work) vs emotional processing vs deconstruction
1:31:43 - What is between me and love/truth?

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Delson Armstrong is a maverick meditation teacher and author. At the age of 16, disillusioned with conventional life, he embarked on a pilgrimage to the Himalayas, where he spent 6 to 8 hours a day practicing various forms of meditation, studying sacred texts, and receiving guidance from masters across multiple lineages.

Through this intensive training, Delson developed the rare ability to enter nirodha-samāpatti—a meditative state marked by the complete cessation of perception and feeling—for extended periods of time. These claims have been rigorously examined through neuroscience research, with findings published in a 2023 paper titled Cessation of Consciousness in Meditation.

He is also the author of A Mind Without Craving and a five-volume series on dependent origination. Delson currently teaches the Optimal Mind System, a synthesis of diverse practices designed to align the body, mind, energy, heart, and consciousness to catalyze deep insight and transformation.

Although deeply informed by traditional models of awakening, Delson takes a universal approach and does not adhere to any single doctrine or path. He believes that idealized systems rooted in specific cultural norms and structures must be reimagined and innovated to meet the needs of our modern world.

In this episode, we explore Delson’s experience working with and integrating different traditions and spiritual practices, how coming across integral theory has helped him recontextualize the spiritual path, whether it’s possible to end suffering, the relationship between psychedelics & meditation, the pro’s and con’s of being open about spiritual attainments, creating healtheir dynamics with spiritual teachers and going beyond spiritual idealization.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Delson’s personal site
• Listen to Delson’s Dharma talks on his YouTube channel
• A Mind Without Craving by Delson Armstrong
• Dependent Origination series by Delson Armstrong
• Delson Armstrong, Guru Viking interviews
• Tales from Nibbana with Dor Konforty & Delson Armstrong
• Ending Guru Worship for True Liberation by Delson Armstrong

📝[Show Notes] 📝

0:00 - Introduction
2:43 - Artem’s experience following Delson’s journey
7:02 - Sutra, Tantra, and going beyond traditional teachings
13:29 - The impact of cultural context on spiritual practices
22:28 - The fallacy of the superior path
27:50 - Letting go of idealistic views
33:31 - The Impact of Integral Theory (Integrating no self and true self)
37:12 - Is there an end to suffering?
50:47 - Delson’s desire to master and integrate a wide variety of teachings
56:42 - Rigpa vs Cessation
1:02:38 - The micro-phemenology of cessation
1:04:21 - The relationship between psychedelics, spirituality, and meditation
1:22:00 - The pros and cons of being open about spiritual attainments
1:29:11 - Creating healthier dynamics between spiritual teachers and students
1:37:44 - Final message

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Dor Konforty is a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, investor, and awakening teacher dedicated to distilling the first principles of the dharma and bringing them to every aspect of human life. He spent most of his twenties conducting interdisciplinary brain research in academic settings, and his thirties as an entrepreneur and CEO in the decentralization space—applying his neuroscience background to envision more collaborative, non-zero-sum human networks.

In parallel, he has devoted thousands of hours to meditation practice as well as growth and relational modalities, training closely with pragmatic dharma teachers such as Culadasa, Daniel Ingram, and Delson Armstrong, and personal development coaches like Joe Hudson and Kim Barta.

He is the founder of The Awakening Fund, a venture that invests in technologies aimed at making meditation unnecessary. Dor is also the author of The Heart Illuminated, a spiritual successor to Culadasa’s The Mind Illuminated. Drawing on over fifteen years of multidisciplinary experience, the book lays out a clear and systematic path towards awakening through a completely modern lens.

In this episode, we explore Dor’s book The Heart Illuminated, his time studying with pragmatic dharma teachers—Culadasa, Daniel Ingram, Delson Armstrong, and Dan Brown—and dive into topics such as integrating emptiness with fullness, investing in awakening technologies that aim to make meditation unnecessary, aligning artificial intelligence with dharma, and navigating the complexities and controversies that can arise in relationships with spiritual teachers.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Dor’s personal site
• The Heart Illuminated by Dor Konforty
• Dor’s investment venture, The Awakening Fund
• Follow Dor on Twitter/X
• The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa
• Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram
• Delson Armstrong
• Dan Brown

📝[Show Notes] 📝

0:00 - Introduction
3:43 - Dor's journey into meditation
7:09 - The unique contribution of “The Mind Illuminated”
10:04 - Working closely with Culadasa and inspiration for writing “The Heart Illuminated”
21:49 - The iterative writing process and gathering feedback from community
24:58 - Understanding the multiplicity of the mind (sub minds, parts, agents, modules, and coordinators)
31:32 - Integrating awakening (emptiness) with healing (fullness)
39:22 - Is awakening about creating a better life?
47:00 - Meeting Daniel Ingram and doing a 23-day Fire Kasina retreat under his guidance
55:30 - The Power of dark retreats and sensory deprivation
57:40 - Friendship with Delson Armstrong
1:01:20 - Sutra, Tantra, metasystemicity, and stages of development
1:12:16 - The contributions of Dan Brown and Dustin Diperna
1:16:43 - Investing in awakening technologies and making meditation unnecessary
1:26:02 - Aligning artificial intelligence with Dharma
1:36:18 - Navigating the Culadasa controversy

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Daniel Thorson is a former monastic, podcaster, writer, and coach. He spent five years as a resident at the Monastic Academy and has accumulated two years of silent retreat experience.

Daniel is also a certified Aletheia Coach and Circling facilitator, whose work weaves together embodied inquiry, attachment-based healing, philosophical exploration, and relational presence.

For many years, Daniel hosted the Emerge podcast, a pioneering platform that helped catalyze emergent dialogues and shape what many now call the liminal web. He currently writes The Intimate Mirror on Substack, a publication exploring meaning, transformation, intimacy, and the search for religion in the age of Artificial Intelligence.

In this episode we speak about Daniel’s extensive experience living and training at a Monastery, turning break downs into break throughs, developing a better relationship with conceptuality and rationality, Secure attachment with reality, leaving Buddhism, creating a Dharma capable of addressing the meta-crisis and many other resonant threads on personal and collective transformation.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Daniel’s personal site & coaching services
• Subscribe to Daniel’s Substack
• Follow Daniel on Twitter/X
• The Upper Middle Path & Tech Bro Buddhism by Daniel Thorson
• Daniel Thorson speaking about Secure Attachment to Reality on the Meta-Game podcast
• Daniel speaking about consensus Buddhism and pragmatic dharma on the Buddhist Geeks podcast
• Monastic Academy (MAPLE)
• Transformational Connection
• Aletheia Coach training
• Daniel P. Brown
• David Elliott - Repairing Attachment | Elevating Consciousness podcast

📝[Show Notes] 📝

0:00 - Introduction
5:06 - Daniel’s experience living as a monk
13:32 - Going through a psychological breakdown
17:29 - Discovering attachment work and the ideal parenting protocol
21:56 - Developing a better relationship with conceptuality and rationality
25:25 - Emotional attunement, relational practices, and the importance of safe containers
34:15 - Secure attachment with reality
38:54 - Trusting the intelligence of every experience
40:30 - Is the fundamental nature of reality love?
44:35 - What is missing from Buddhism?
52:10 - Towards a Translineage spirituality
55:50 - Is there anything afforded by identifying as Buddhist or Christian?
1:06:05 - From emptiness/deconstructing to soulmaking/skillfully playing with identity
1:09:29 - A dharma capable of addressing the meta-crisis
1:11:36 - Daniel’s current meditation practice
1:14:20 - Integrating ethics with eros and clarifying desire
1:17:36 - Reflecting on the Human Transformation in a Time of Meta-Crisis conference at Harvard
1:22:17 - The liberation of creative agency

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Hyrum Lewis is a professor, author, and political theorist. He currently teaches history at Brigham Young University–Idaho, where he leads the American Foundations Team.

Lewis’s research focuses on the history of ideology and the intersection of political and intellectual culture. He has written extensively on the evolution of American conservatism, historical pedagogy, and cultural conflict in the American West.

He is the author of several books, including his most recent, The Myth of the Left and Right, co-authored with his brother Verlan Lewis. In it, they argue that the traditional left-right political spectrum is a misleading and oversimplified framework for understanding contemporary American politics.

In this episode, we speak about why tribalism precedes philosophy, how what left and right means is always changing, what Jonathan Haidt got wrong, pathways towards more generative political conversations, and the relationship between religion and politics.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• The Myth of Left and Right by Hyrum Lewis and Verlan Lewis
• The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt
• Keith Stanovich
• John Stuart Mill
• The Scout Mindset by Julia Galef
• The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley

📝[Show Notes] 📝

0:00 - Introduction
3:18 - The intuition that the political spectrum is broken
5:26 - The Essentialist Theory of Ideology vs The Social Theory of Ideology
8:38 - Why tribalism precedes philosophy
12:01 - Caricatures of the left and the right
14:25 - How what left and right means is always changing
17:44 - We choose our politicians before our policies
21:31 - How to better use terms left and right or liberal and conservative
27:03 - Voting on one issue without anchoring
32:05 - How do we move beyond left & right with a two-party system?
39:25 - What Jonathan Haidt and Moral Foundations Theory got wrong
44:45 - Questioning the links between psychological traits and political positions
49:17 - Pathways towards more generative political conversations
53:51 - Why we need to increase our tolerance for disagreement
59:16 - Developing a Scout Mindset
1:02:08 - What is the relationship between religion and politics
1:06:55 - The destructive ideology of Progressivism

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Jordan Hall is a tech entrepreneur, philosopher, and meta-systemic thinker who, over a year ago, announced that he had converted to Christianity.

This conversation was recorded live during Limicon, a digital conference for those in the liminal, metamodern, and game B spaces.

In it, we explored Jordan’s early experiences with religion and spirituality, what ultimately drew him to Christianity, and what Christianity might afford that Eastern traditions do not.

We touched on discerning divine calling from the egoic mind, confronting fundamentalist forms of Christianity, and the shift from propositional to participatory forms of knowing.

We also examined the role religion may play in ameliorating some of the negative trends in society and the meta-crisis at large.

🔗[Links & resources] 🔗

• Subscribe to Jordan’s Substack
• Follow Jordan on Twitter
• Subscribe to Jordan’s YouTube channel
• Read The Religious Case Against Belief by James Carse
• Watch Jordan Peterson in conversation with John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall
• Watch Jordan Hall in conversation with Jonathan Pageau and John Vervaeke
• Learn more about Black Mountain, North Carolina

📝[Show Notes] 📝

0:00 - Introduction
3:07 - Jordan’s journey into religion & spirituality
16:39 - Entrepreneurship as a path to cultivating instincts and intuitions
20:40 - Landing in Black Mountain and finding Christianity
26:26 - Extensively studying Christianity and discovering a new level of humility
34:04 - What does Christianity afford that Eastern religions don’t?
44:26 - The Meta-Crisis is a crisis of religion
54:05 - The Impact of Religious Traditions on Family
58:28 - Healing our religious trauma and deepening our capacity to love
1:04:05 - Differentiating intuition (divine calling vs egoic mind)
1:18:16 - Confronting fundamentalist forms of Christianity and finding a church that aligns
1:29:01 - Divine sensemaking

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