EP 760 - Signal vs. System: Jay Allen x Sheldon Primus on HOP, BBS & the Human Cost

Crossover episode! This is a rebroadcast of Jay’s conversation on The Safety Consultant Show with Sheldon Primus, now on Safety FM with Jay Allen. Jay and Sheldon go deep on the ideas behind the Signal Transmission Trilogy—how to blend HOP and BBS without the all-or-nothing dogma, why incentives quietly shape reporting, and the squeeze that middle managers feel between production and protection. They also tackle the part safety too often avoids: mental health, burnout, and suicide risk in construction and beyond (with practical self-care resources and why it’s okay to say you’re not okay).

You’ll hear:

• How to drive micro-level change when the system won’t budge yet
• A better take on “accountability” that isn’t blame
• Why numbers and forms aren’t the work—and what to do instead

Originally recorded for Sheldon’s show, shared here to spark new conversations. If this helps, pass it on to a colleague who needs it today.

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