Send Kevin a Text Message

In this engaging episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews his business associate, Bob Levin, about his remarkable journey from Sears catalog copywriter to President of Worldwide Marketing at Disney, Sony Pictures, and MGM, before joining Kevin at Screen Engine in the role of President and COO. Listen in as these two industry veterans share marketing insights and discuss their upcoming book, How to Score in Hollywood (Simon & Schuster, November 11th), which reveals the hidden formula behind a movie’s profitability — showing how audience understanding drives smarter decisions from greenlight to release.

Disney's Renaissance Era (09:00) Bob recounts joining Disney just as Eisner and Katzenberg were revitalizing the studio, leading marketing during 17 consecutive hits, including Down and Out in Beverly Hills, The Lion King, and Pretty Woman.

Marketing Philosophy (15:51) "Good marketing is both instinct and data," Bob explains, describing his pioneering approach of creating targeted messaging for different audience segments at Disney's animation division.

Pretty Woman & Marketing Triumphs (19:33) Bob reveals how he helped to transform Pretty Woman from a potentially dark R-rated film into a celebration of female empowerment, even suggesting the iconic title to replace the original "3000".

The Screen Engine Years (34:40) After leading marketing at three major studios, Bob joined Screen Engine, helping to build their research business, which started in Kevin's living room, into an industry powerhouse that expanded beyond film into other industries.

How to Score in Hollywood (42:48) Bob discusses their upcoming book, which examines how movies get greenlit, applying the principle that "every movie if made and marketed for the right price should make money.”

Understanding Audience Response (47:42) Levy notes that audiences aren't "wrong" when they dislike something; they're simply reacting honestly. Bob learned that viewers fundamentally seek characters with whom they can identify.

The Attention Economy (48:54) Rather than thinking in terms of being in "the movie business," Levin suggests viewing entertainment as part of "the attention economy" where respecting the audience and telling great stories remains paramount.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Bob Levin
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Bob Levin:
Simon and Schuster:https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Bob-Levin/240343657
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-levin-843797125/
IMDB:

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message

In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz welcomes UK-based film industry analyst Stephen Follows for a discussion about film profitability and its connection to data. Stephen's digital book Greenlight Signals analyzes over 10,000 films and 4 million audience responses using secondary data (existing reviews, ratings, and comments from across the internet) to discover what makes a film successful. Together, Kevin and Stephen explore the same mission from different angles: ensuring filmmakers can make money while making the movies they're passionate about.

From Film School to Data Research (2:32) Stephen shares his path from producing micro-budget features to becoming an entertainment data analyst, driven by his love of cinema and his passion for solving problems through logic and research.

The Numbers Don’t Lie (9:59) Stephen recounts the eye-opening experience of helping a producer friend with a business plan, only to discover that every similar film had lost money.

Why Experience Doesn't Equal Success (12:47) Stephen reveals his surprising research finding: there's little to no correlation between a producer's experience and their film's profitability, showing how passion can interfere with business sense.

Two Books, One Goal (22:01) Kevin and Stephen discuss their approaches to data: Kevin's How to Score in Hollywood focuses on pre-greenlight capability testing using audience data, while Stephen's Greenlight Signals uses secondary data to identify patterns across genres. Both emphasize that data guides decisions rather than dictating them.

Horror Films: Control and Atmosphere (33:50) Stephen and Kevin discuss what makes horror movies work, from declaring your genre early to shot-length and how controlling what audiences see and when they see it is essential to creating fear.

Every Movie Should Make Money (45:50) Kevin and Stephen discuss Kevin's theory that every film, if made and marketed for the right price, should be profitable.

Universal Rules Across All Genres (47:49) Stephen and Kevin identify critical commonalities of successful films: emotional authenticity, clear character wants, visible stakes, avoiding confusion, respecting established rules, and maintaining consistent tone throughout.

This episode offers invaluable insights for anyone interested in the intersection of art and commerce in Hollywood.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and share. We look forward to bringing you more behind-the-scenes revelations next time on Don't Kill the Messenger.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guest: Stephen Follows
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Stephen Follows:
Website: https://stephenfollows.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stephenfollows/
IMDB: https

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Send Kevin a Text Message

In this episode of Don't Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz explores the intersection of social media and film marketing with Troy and Mark Paul, the son and father duo behind SGG Media. Their innovative agency represents over 2,300 sports micro-influencers with a combined reach of 88 million followers, helping major studios navigate a sea change in content marketing. Once reliant on TV, radio, and outdoor advertising, studios and streamers now lean heavily into social media to connect with audiences, particularly the elusive 18-35 year old male demographic. SGG's network of passionate superfans creates authentic engagement in ways traditional advertising simply cannot.

What Makes Micro-Influencers Different (03:10) Troy explains that SGG represents everyday superfans, not celebrities. These creators have built loyal, engaged communities around their passion for sports.

The Origin Story: From NYU to Entrepreneurship (18:02) Troy shares how he identified an untapped opportunity during COVID-19: sports fans creating content with millions of impressions but no monetization strategy. His high school friend Joe Hayes, who had built a 150,000-follower account, became employee number one.

A Father's Investment and Guidance (12:38) Mark discusses putting his money where his belief was, investing $1 million of the company's total $3 million raised capital, and how he and Troy have deferred compensation for two consecutive years to reinvest in growth.

The Pizza Entrepreneur at Age 11 (25:55) Mark shares the story of Troy's first business venture: hiring runners to buy pizzas and reselling slices to lazy classmates.

Authenticity Over Celebrity (36:39) Troy contrasts traditional influencer marketing with SGG's approach: their creators have smaller but deeply loyal audiences, creating authentic engagement rather than paid celebrity endorsements that feel like "cash grabs."

Universal's Breakthrough Campaign (39:35) Troy details how Universal brilliantly marketed the Jordan Peele film Him by timing the trailer drop with the NFL Draft and having 400+ NFL accounts create organic debate and engagement.

Amplification: A New Marketing Strategy (42:32) Troy reveals SGG's most powerful tool: having hundreds of micro-influencers repost studio content simultaneously, building the studio's own social presence while reaching targeted audiences.

Troy and Mark demonstrate how understanding shifting media consumption, building authentic creator relationships, and targeting niche audiences can cut through today's marketing noise to reach a “holy grail” demographic.

Host: Kevin Goetz
Guests: Troy Paul, Mark Paul
Producer: Kari Campano
Writers: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, and Kari Campano
Audio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)

For more information about Troy and Mark Paul:

SGG Media: https://sggmedia.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troy-paul-26a06198
Instagram:

For more information about Kevin Goetz:
- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/
- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360
- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz
- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com