Jason is joined by former Kentucky congressional candidate Erin Petrie, board member of Bourbon Women and active DAR member, to dissect the ideological clash at the heart of the American left. They discuss whether progressive slogans like "abolish ICE" drive moderate voters into Trumpism, how Citizens United and billionaire donors have created a pay-to-play system and why politicians in Washington fail to address the affordability crisis in rural America.

MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: What do Erin’s experiences in post-revolutionary Libya reveal about the collapse of civic trust back home? Then, as Jason and Erin Order the Disorder, they debate whether centrist pragmatic realism or progressive dreaming is the path forward. They explore critical Senate and House races to watch in North Carolina and Texas, whether Democrats should pack the Supreme Court to counter executive overreach, and how international trade and tariffs could hit MAGA voters where it hurts. Plus: can the rule of law still win in Trump’s America, or must centrist Democrats go lower to actually restore order?

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus:

https://disordershow.com/club

Producer: Sam Cluley

Subscribe to Ordering the Disorder:

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Erin’s Website:

https://erinpetrey.com/

Erin’s Podcast:

https://www.thekentuckyedge.com/on-the-edge-with-erin-petrey/

Kentucky Educational Television (KET) Debate Coverage

Citizens United v. FEC:

https://www.fec.gov/legal-resources/court-cases/citizens-united-v-fec/

History of ICE:

https://www.dhs.gov/history

What exactly is “War Putinism” — and how long can it survive?

Jason is joined by Russia expert Mark Galeotti, host of In Moscow’s Shadows, to get inside the increasingly militarised, kleptocratic system Putin has built. They discuss Russia’s recent Duma elections, whether the war economy is devouring Russia’s future, how corruption changes when elites stop believing the system will last forever, and why Russia is so effective at exploiting divisions in Western societies.

Then they Order the Disorder: Jason and Mark disagree agreeably over whether Europe needs greater unity or much bolder action against Russia — before exploring financial enforcement, sanctions, Russian money flows and what the West could actually do to constrain Putin’s capacity to disorder the international system.

And, naturally, there are bears. Lots of rampaging Russian bears.

MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: Can Ukraine actually win? Responding to a listener challenge, Jason and Mark debate what Russian defeat could realistically mean, whether any settlement merely gives Putin time to regroup, and what security guarantees Ukraine would actually need. Plus: even more on Russia’s increasingly disorderly bears.

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus:

https://disordershow.com/club

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to Ordering the Disorder:

https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Mark Galeotti’s In Moscow’s Shadows:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/in-moscows-shadows/id1510124746

In Moscow’s Shadows 264: Russia’s Bear(s) On The March:

https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/in-moscows-shadows-264-russias-bear-s-on-the-march/id1510124746?i=1000791844169

Our recent episode with Hanna Notte — Can Putin Outlast the West (by Disordering it)?:

https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/35b8c221b3fca72fafb5a4b0fee7924f22d97423/view

Disorder Ep. 196 with Jamison Firestone — Rule of Lies: The Origin Story of Putin’s Russia:

https://podcasts.apple.com/id/podcast/ep-196-rule-of-lies-the-origin-story-of/id1706818264?i=1000777642161

Our previous episode with Sir Bill Browder:

https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/a36160dede2b990a59c34c3c4e8eeece

Join the Mega Orderers Club:

https://disordershow.com/club

This is a story about an Israeli and a Palestinian who refuse to give up. Instead, they teach us that “Peace is an action”. Rejecting revenge and rage, Aziz offers an image that stays with us: anger is like nuclear power. It can destroy, or it can light a path. This is a conversation about what it takes to choose the latter, and what the rest of us might do next.

Maoz Inon's parents were killed in the Hamas attacks of 7 October 2023. Aziz Abu Sarah's brother was killed by injuries from torture he suffered in Israeli custody. They have every reason to know what this conflict costs. Together, they insist that its future can still be peace.

In this episode of Out of Order, Mark Lobel, a British Jew and journalist, speaks with the Israeli and Palestinian co-authors of The Future Is Peace, alongside his childhood friend Rida Saïd, a British Muslim, entrepreneur and advisor in the Middle East, dedicated to peace and dialogue in the region.

Their conversation moves from grief and anger to the hard work of building a movement: protecting Palestinian farmers during the olive harvest, teaching young women in the West Bank, creating a place where Israelis and Palestinians can encounter each other’s stories, and pressing people with power to act.

The peace activists also share their thoughts on: Ed Sheeran, Macklemore, Ed Miliband, the UK government’s sanctions against West Bank settlements, the upcoming Israeli and Palestinian elections and Aziz’s assertion that just three and a half percent of a society can change the social and political structure of a country.

Mark and Rida ask the questions that test that vision. Why spend so much time appealing to audiences abroad? What should happen when language meant to demand freedom makes someone else afraid? And, if the politicians will not lead, who will?

Guests: Maoz Inon, Aziz Abu Sarah, Rida Saïd

Producer: George McDonagh

Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early release episodes and more:

https://disordershow.com/club

Show Note Links:

Contact Maoz and Aziz’s non-profit organisation here: https://www.iinteract.org/

Buy Maoz and Aziz’s book here: The Future Is Peace, a New York Times bestseller https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Peace-Aziz-Abu-Sarah/dp/1837264074/ref=asc_df_1837264074?mcid=cac2792703583071a5d48985f377d155&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=781185311404&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=700057887293780533&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045954&hvtargid=pla-2449018475226&psc=1&hvocijid=700057887293780533-1837264074-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

Read ‘A Law Catching Up with a Truth We Have Always Known’ by Rida Said: https://www.arabnews.com/opinion/a-law-finally-catching-up-with-a-truth-we-have-always-known-3001235

Watch Maoz and Aziz’s TED Talk, April 2024: https://www.ted.com/talks/aziz_abu_sarah_and_maoz_inon_a_palestinian_and_an_israeli_face_to_face

Subscribe to Out of Order on Substack here: https://substack.com/@marklobeltv

Follow Out of Order on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/outofordermarklobel/?hl=en-gb

Follow Out of Order on Youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/@OutofOrderwithMarkLobel

Get in touch with Mark here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/

Maoz and Aziz addressing the United Nations, 28th September 2026: https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1i/k1idc71j2y