All good things come in threes… apparently.In Episode 61, Debra and Peter explore a trio of big themes, with a few bonus threes thrown in for good measure.First up: AI and identity. After asking ChatGPT for a character assessment, Peter shares the surprisingly flattering results. But can we trust tools that are designed to please us? The conversation ranges from chatbots and child safety to horoscopes, tarot cards and the psychology of confirmation bias. When does self reflection become self deception?Then leadership. How fixed should your style be? Should leaders adapt to the people they lead, or stand firm in who they are? Debra and Peter unpack values versus personality, the danger of labelling colleagues as “difficult”, and why excellence and empathy still matter, especially when times feel uncertain.Which brings us to global politics and wellbeing. After a staff survey revealed just how much world events are affecting people’s mental health, they discuss whether working in civil society means accepting discomfort, how to reconnect with purpose, and why persistence still overcomes resistance. Is progress really going backwards, or just taking a complicated route?Along the way, we count at least three notable trios: three weeks of Debra being housebound with her poorly pup, three of Peter’s charity roles that would make anyone else lie down in a dark room, and at least three celebratory shots in Blackpool with his brother. There may have been more.We are taking a short break, but do not worry, we will be back in less than three weeks with more debate, reflection and probably another unexpected tangent.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 60. Some people retire at 60. Others keep going until at least 67. And some of us, apparently, will still be producing this podcast well into our late 80s if the pension age keeps creeping up.This week, Debra and Peter start with life updates, including a worrying but heartfelt update on Arthur the Basset Hound, reflections on ageing, retirement, and Peter’s upcoming football-fuelled trip to Blackpool.The main conversation then turns to leadership and accountability. When something goes wrong, should the person at the top resign? Or is walking away sometimes a way of avoiding accountability rather than taking responsibility? Debra and Peter explore the crucial distinction between responsibility and culpability, the dangers of victim blaming, and why boards should focus less on individuals and more on culture, systems, processes, and risk appetite.They reflect on how risk aversion can damage leadership, why perfect leaders do not exist, and how charities can build resilience by not relying on heroic individuals. There is also a wider look at public trust, media pressure, and the unrealistic expectations placed on leaders, particularly in the charity sector.In the second half of the episode, Debra and Peter tackle the government proposal to require asylum seekers and refugees to volunteer. They discuss why compulsory volunteering undermines the very idea of volunteering, the risks of exploitation, safeguarding concerns, and the importance of protecting the independence of civil society. While both agree on the value of integration, belonging, and participation, they argue these goals must be supported through funding and collaboration, not conditions tied to immigration status.As ever, this is a thoughtful, lively, and honest conversation about leadership, power, and the role charities play when government policy falls short.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 59!Debra and Peter are back with another wide ranging conversation, mixing life, leadership and some knotty charity sector issues.This week starts with travel tales, as Peter reports back from Dubai, including flooded Somerset rail lines and presenting to an international board. Debra shares a much more emotional update from home, as her beloved Arthur recovers from major surgery, complete with the cone of shame and a few sleepless nights.There is also a quietly heroic moment from Peter, who briefly believes he has lost someone else’s cat, only to discover a very large, very muddy feline marooned on the back step in the pouring rain.The conversation then turns to serious charity sector business. Debra and Peter discuss the risks of paying trustees, or trustee connected companies, for services, prompted by a Charity Commission compliance case. They explore conflicts of interest, why small charities are particularly exposed, and why “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” remains a useful rule of thumb.They also unpack the realities of pro bono support, volunteers and procurement, including the dangers of false economies, being locked into suppliers, and the management burden that comes with offers that look too good to refuse.Later, a discussion about political news and leaked information leads into a deeper look at confidentiality, trustee behaviour and governance. What does confidentiality really mean in charities? When can trustees not keep things confidential? And how should boards handle sensitive information responsibly?The episode closes with reflections on leadership, values and performance. Debra and Peter debate fear versus empathy, managing high performers whose behaviour causes tension, and why respect, kindness and clarity matter just as much as results.As ever, expect thoughtful insight, strong opinions and a few laughs along the way.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 58 sees Debra and Peter cover a lot of ground, from the practical realities of charity governance to some much bigger questions about leadership and ambition.Debra explains why board rehearsals have become one of the most valuable practices at DSC. From preparing staff to answer trustee questions with confidence, to creating the right space for honest discussion, they explore how preparation can strengthen governance without slipping into over-polish or control.The conversation then turns to ambition. Prompted by recent political manoeuvring, Debra and Peter ask whether ambition has become a dirty word in the charity sector. They unpack the difference between healthy and unhealthy ambition, why organisations need ambitious people, and how leaders can support individuals to fulfil their potential without trampling over others.Succession planning also comes under the spotlight. They challenge common assumptions about grooming the next chief executive, discuss talent development, bias, open recruitment, and why real succession planning is about building robust organisations rather than picking future leaders. Along the way, they draw lessons from politics, shared leadership models, and Abraham Lincoln’s approach to managing big egos with a clear sense of purpose.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

In Episode 57, Debra and Peter tackle a big and often uncomfortable question in the charity sector: how long is too long?Prompted by a recent post from Steve Allman, the conversation explores CEO tenure, career versus cause-led leadership, and why there is no such thing as a perfect length of service. Debra reflects on her 25 years at DSC and shares the signals she looks for when thinking about whether it is time to move on. Peter adds his own experience of leadership transitions and why choosing when to leave is often a luxury most chief executives do not get.The discussion then widens to trustees and governance. With the updated Charity Governance Code introducing clearer expectations on trustee term limits, Debra and Peter debate whether rigid rules really work, particularly for small and local charities. They look at board diversity, over representation, founder syndrome, and how boards can manage renewal without losing vital skills, commitment, or goodwill.Along the way, the episode takes a lighter turn with stories about celebrities in the charity world, including Peter’s unforgettable meeting with Dolly Parton and what it taught him about public policy, influence, and preparation. They also reflect on the risks and rewards of working with well known figures and why charisma does not always mean impact.Thoughtful, candid, and full of real sector insight, this episode is a must listen for trustees, chief executives, and anyone interested in charity leadership and governance.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 56 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast dives into some of the most pressing and personal topics yet.They begin with an ode to the great outdoors, tree surgery, and mental health. From Perennial: the charity supporting horticultural workers, to Debra's confession about disliking winter walks, they explore how nature and mental wellbeing intersect, both personally and professionally.Then, the conversation takes a serious turn toward the ethics of AI-generated images. What happens when powerful tools are used to sexualise images of women and children without consent? Peter and Debra react to recent controversies surrounding X/Twitter, Elon Musk, and image manipulation tech. They discuss the legal gaps, the Online Safety Act, and whether platforms can or should be banned outright.There’s even time for some segue magic. Peter sets the bar high with a smooth transition from manipulated pet photos to manipulated AI images. Debra’s attempt to link the word “emerging” to the topic of mergers... let’s just say, not quite as graceful. But it gets the job done.Finally, prompted by Kate Lee’s comments, the episode tackles charity mergers. Debra shares candid reflections from her own experience with merging organisations, the emotional stakes involved, and why collaboration might be better than consolidation. Peter adds thoughts on strategic alliances, small charity resilience, and the unspoken truth about failed mergers.It’s a thoughtful, fiery, and occasionally funny episode that covers everything from manipulated dog photos to modern-day stocks.Comment below or email us to share your views!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 55 kicks off the new year, and Debra and Peter are back after a Christmas break, reflecting on what it means to return to work with energy, realism and hope.

They start by talking about leadership at the start of the year, acknowledging just how tough the past twelve months have been for many charities. Survival, Debra argues, is not a failure but a success, and hope only really matters when it is matched with action.

The conversation then turns to charity governance, prompted by the very public breakdown of the relationship between the board and chief executive at Oxfam. Debra and Peter unpack what happens when chairs and CEOs clash, why governance failures often sit behind these situations, and how things can escalate when roles, loyalties and responsibilities become confused.

Drawing on years of experience, Debra shares practical advice for boards and chief executives, from one to one conversations with trustees to appraising chairs properly, avoiding over concentration of power and creating a culture where disagreement is handled well.

They also explore how organisations can rethink their structures, moving away from rigid hierarchies towards partnership models that value trustees, staff, volunteers and beneficiaries equally.

Finally, Peter brings in a live governance question from the world of county cricket, sparking a discussion about independence, lived experience and how boards can balance fresh thinking with deep contextual knowledge.

As ever, there is honesty, challenge, and a shared belief that good governance really matters, especially at the start of a new year.

If there are issues you would like Debra and Peter to explore in future episodes, do get in touch.

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More Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/

More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/

Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk

Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

In the final episode of the year, Debra and Peter wrap up 2025 with a thoughtful conversation about the less-discussed dynamics within the charity sector: toxic teams.They dig into the difficult issue of workplace toxicity and explore how pockets of negativity can undermine even the most values-driven organisations. How do you deal with staff groups who resist change, weaponise internal values, or quietly disrupt? And what happens when the toxicity is directed upwards, leaving leaders powerless?They also touch on the government's new grant feedback mechanism, asking whether it can really work in a sector where power dynamics make honesty risky. Is 'feed forward' a better approach for building trust and learning?All this, plus stories of kindness in the cold, a magical pink coat, the joy of Christmas jumpers, and the emotional importance of being the best version of yourself... even when you're just buying teabags.Have thoughts to share or feedback to give (the kind we like)? Leave a comment or drop us an email.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez