Marketing is one of those things every practice knows it needs — and almost no one feels confident doing.

In this episode, I’m joined by John Sanders from RevKey, a Google Ads specialist who works almost exclusively with mental health practices. Together, we pull apart why marketing feels so murky, emotionally loaded, and ethically fraught for therapists — and why so many practice owners feel like they’re throwing money into a black box and hoping for the best.

We talk about the emotional baggage therapists carry around money and visibility, why “doing it yourself” often costs more in the long run, and how marketing is actually made up of multiple distinct professions that too often get lumped together. We also get into ethical boundaries in mental health marketing, what Google actually allows (and doesn’t), and how to think clearly about delegation without spiraling into fear or avoidance.

This is not a how-to episode. It’s a how-to-think episode — about clarity, specialization, ethical visibility, and building marketing systems that actually serve both you and your clients.

You can also learn more about John and RevKey at http://www.revkey.com/podcasts.

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Marketing and Mental Health
00:35 Meet the Guest: John Sanders
01:11 The Challenges of Naming a Business
02:46 Diving into Marketing Strategies
03:48 Emotional Aspects of Marketing for Therapists
06:18 Technical Hurdles in Marketing
07:09 Common Fears and Misconceptions
13:19 The Importance of a Good Website
24:14 Ethical Marketing Strategies
30:11 Emotional Stories Therapists Carry About Money
30:45 Fear and Hesitation in Business Investments
36:20 The Importance of Delegation
41:08 Questions for Overwhelmed Practice Owners
43:49 The Complexity of Marketing for Therapists
49:23 Core Focus and Avoiding Distractions
56:08 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Books Mentioned in This Episode

• The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle
  https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Code-Secrets-Highly-Successful/dp/0804176981
• Traction by Gino Wickman
  https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837
• The Legendborn Series by Tracy Deonn
  https://www.amazon.com/Legendborn-Tracy-Deonn/dp/1534441606
• Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix by J.K. Rowling
  https://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Order-Phoenix-Book/dp/0439358078
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
  https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756
• Enshittification by Cory Doctorow
  https://www.amazon.com/Enshittification-Cory-Doctorow/dp/1250866842

If this conversation helped clarify even one stuck place in your thinking, subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss future episodes — and share this one with a practice owner who’s quietly overwhelmed by marketing and doesn’t know where to start.

We talk about avoiding hard conversations like it’s a communication issue.
It’s not.

Most of the time, avoidance is a self-protection strategy — not from the other person, but from the feelings the conversation brings up in us. And while it might buy short-term relief, it quietly erodes trust, clarity, and leadership credibility over time.

In this episode, I break down why avoidance feels safer than honesty, how self-protective patterns show up in leadership, and how to stop the cycle without swinging into blunt-force honesty or emotional shutdown. We talk about softening the truth, waiting too long, over-explaining, and the subtle ways leaders manage other people’s emotions to avoid their own discomfort.

More importantly, we get into what grounded leadership actually looks like: starting with inner truth, anchoring conversations in structure, and practicing small, everyday honesty so hard conversations stop feeling like landmines.

This is about moving from self-protection to consistent, trusted leadership — not being nice, not being harsh, just being real.

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
01:12 Why Avoidance Feels Safer Than Honesty
03:50 The Consequences of Avoidance
05:53 Personal Anecdote: The Bandaid Story
09:27 Leaders' Fear of Being the Bad Guy
12:25 How Self-Protection Shapes Leadership Behavior
21:34 Overtalking and Overexplaining
21:57 Managing Emotional Reactions
24:13 Self-Protection and Avoidance
24:53 Breaking the Cycle of Avoidance
26:56 Inner Truth and Outer Wording
31:41 Grounding in Structure
35:08 Practicing Small Forms of Honesty
39:56 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

If this episode hits close to home, subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss future conversations like this — and send it to the first leader who popped into your head while you were listening.

This episode kicks off a brand new recurring segment on the Culture Focused Practice Podcast: The Visionary–Integrator Table. And we’re starting exactly where leadership actually lives — in the quiet, invisible emotional labor no one warns you about.

I’m joined by my integrator, Taylor, for a candid, unscripted conversation about what leadership really asks of you when no one is watching. We talk about the emotional weight leaders carry so their teams don’t have to, the loneliness that comes with responsibility, and how visionary–integrator dynamics hold tension, humanity, and accountability at the same damn time.

We unpack the emotional work underneath leadership frameworks like LMA, why emotions are always at the table whether you acknowledge them or not, and how patterns in team emotionality quietly inform decisions long before anything becomes “a problem.” We also get into friendship and power dynamics at work, boundaries in social settings, COVID-era leadership trauma, and why clean systems don’t work unless the emotional landscape is tended to too.

This is not a polished leadership highlight reel. It’s an honest look under the hood at how leadership actually functions — emotionally, relationally, and systemically — when it’s done with integrity.

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to the Culture Focused Practice Podcast
01:07 Introducing the Visionary Integrator Table
02:02 The Quiet Labor of Leadership
03:42 Navigating Leadership Challenges
33:25 Balancing Personal and Professional Relationships
37:21 Setting Boundaries in Social Settings
38:14 Challenges of Leadership and Friendship
39:49 Reflecting on Leadership and COVID-19
41:25 The Weight of Responsibility
50:16 Emotional Patterns in the Workplace
01:00:51 The Emotional Work of Leadership
01:14:33 The Impact of Emotions on Data Collection
01:14:59 Systems vs. Emotions: A Social Work Perspective
01:16:01 Integrating Systemic and Emotional Approaches
01:16:47 The Role of Environment in Behavior
01:17:54 Balancing Emotions and Structures in Leadership
01:19:06 Matriarchal vs. Patriarchal Leadership Approaches
01:19:38 Practical Advice for Overwhelmed Leaders
01:25:49 The Importance of Emotional Awareness in Leadership
01:39:18 Final Reflections and Takeaways

If leadership has ever felt heavier than you expected — or lonelier — this episode is for you.