This series critically explores adversity and trauma, what it is and how it plays out in an educational context. On the show with me is Jo and Rachel from an FE college in the north of England. In this final episode we discuss the benefits and limitations of trauma-informed training, policy and practice and the implications for building trusting relationships from a pastoral perspective.

I begin the show by asking Jo and Rachel what being trauma-informed means to them in their role.

Jo tells us about the trauma training they've received being similar to safeguarding training. Through safeguarding, students are known to them and pastoral support thus acts as the go between for students and teachers. Trauma training in this respect is more in-depth for those working in pastoral support.

I ask both Jo and Rachel a bit more about the type of training they've had. Jo discusses their big set piece where all members of staff received some core training from a guest speaker. Staff also receive professional development training depending on the role they have. Rachel continues with discussing additional online training she has sought herself.

06.06: Jo talks about the overlap between safeguarding training and trauma informed practice. Training is used to inform teachers what to look for in terms of student behaviour in the classroom.

06.58: I then ask about the impact the training has had on the adults who work with the young people who have experienced trauma. Jo responds with how understanding and empathy has been developed as well as other skills such as pausing before reacting as result of the training. Rachel discusses how there is open dialogue with teachers across the college as some won't feel they know enough or won't need to be fully trained in trauma. With this, teachers can talk to the pastoral team for a young person to be sign posted to other services such as counselling and not necessarily need to take it on themselves.

10.00: I take the conversation into the potential breakdown in relationships between teacher and student when other professionals are involved. I was curious to learn if signposting had an impact and if so, how. Rachel felt the signposting was open between all parties and believes this had a positive impact as it provides a wrap-around service.

12.23: I ask just how open the dialogue is. Rachel talks about how necessary it is to be open though there may be students who don't want to talk or want the adult to know something. Conversations need to be had with a degree of confidentiality to protect everyone.

14.50: I ask Jo and Rachel if they have any success stories they can share following all we have discussed. Rachel talks about the positivity of wrap around support with one particular student in mind who had experienced multiple adversities and trauma. This student had members of staff who cared and she made it through her A-levels and went onto study nursing at university.

18.08: We continue the show with discussing how those who have lived negative experiences will either continue to do so in adulthood or they'll move into a helping role such as teaching or nursing. Jo talks about an access to HE course where adult learners take up their education but have a lot to overcome in a short time.

To finish I ask Jo and Rachel if they feel more can be done in relation to policy and practice. Whilst Jo believes more can always be done, she felt the training was plentiful and talked about there being a budget for staff who want to access further training. Rachel adds how this contributes to the pool of knowledge and from that, as a college, they've been able to move away from traditional behaviour policies such as with disciplinary policy to more relational policy. I think this gives a humanistic feel towards something that can be difficult and this prompts me to ask what the challenges have been.

This series critically explores adversity and trauma, what it is and how it plays out in an educational context. In this 2nd episode with Ndindi, we discuss policy and practice with a focus on becoming trauma-informed.

Ndindi and I begin the show by discussing the 6 principles of trauma. Ndindi questions how these principles can be measured and I respond by explaining how they're not a treatment plan and thus won't be measured in a scientific way. The principles are designed to guide us through breaking down the barriers of trauma so that people can feel safe and supported.

Can we philosophise the human experience when the principles have been implemented? Could this be a way to measure them and what would the quality of outcome look like? These are some of the questions I present to Ndindi. Ndindi then follows on from this with how it is important to implement empathy and compassion in the classroom when working through the principles to understand what each of them are and provides us with examples.

09.35: I discuss the lack of training around becoming trauma-informed and ask how can we empower ourselves and others, or overcome challenges with collaboration when the policy itself is unclear. For me personally, I talk about my experience in the classroom and how I validate the learners' experience so that we build trusting relationships. The teacher/learner relationship is an important one for those tools of empowerment to be developed.

12.02: Ndindi agrees with this, discussing how responsibility for those who are 'too troubled right now' is shifted from the teacher to pastoral care. This makes the classroom look more coherent rather than working through concerns and enabling all learners to feel like they belong in the same space. Ndindi continues to say, though there is outside support which is good, the learner is not an after thought and there is evidence to support this.

16.04: I talk about the limitations of policy and practice in relation to an educators' role, having a duty of care and developing a learner holistically. Having outside resources may benefit some but we need to remember that learners' especially teenagers, can feel judged. If they're on the outside they may find it more difficult to communicate and until we address certain conversations, learners are not finding commonality to build community in the classroom.

Ndindi talks about the industrial complexities giving individuals' support and how individual therapies can be found though this isn't always beneficial holistically in the social context. Tools for post education need to be developed and sometimes this can be restricted when for example, financial assistant is allocated like a lottery and it's not clear where this money goes. Ndindi discusses the reproduction at play with learners' being pulled from class and the need for the development of social intelligence.

21.00: I then touch on the reproduction of social inequalities by talking about my PhD and subsequent book 'state schooling and the reproduction of social inequalities and how this relates to our discussion today around how individual agency can be reduced, leaving an individual hidden in the background.

Conversations about policy, particularly when thinking about how to foster relationship building, is a way to address trauma for young people in schools and of course others in any educational context.

This series critically explores adversity and trauma, what it is and how it plays out in an educational context. In this episode, Ndindi and I discuss systemic trauma, self-awareness and a brave space model.

Ndindi begins the show by discussing adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and if following this, one can advocate for oneself in their journey to self-awareness. Ndindi then touches on personal experiences relating them to her teaching career and how she now pushes back on the silence surrounding adversity.

Adverse experiences can be complex and intergenerational and people tend to blame themselves without connecting to the wider context at play. This is because developing the tools to navigate our situation more broadly is often unaccessible.

I relate this to my personal experiences and with the difficulties I faced with not wanting to put the blame on those around me. As I journeyed through however, I could relate my experiences to the wider context, I began to view myself holistically and I believe this is when I truly started to develop self-awareness.

08.18 Ndindi explains how neoliberal healing and trauma conversations are individualised and how others don't see the bigger systematic picture. For this reason, she believes conversations shouldn't be ahistorical. Ndindi provides us with an example in the LA context, relating to the level of energy that is given to children who are resilient because they are poor and racialised. There's a need to understand why they are 'gritty' versus why they have disadvantaged lived experiences and how they can overcome this.

11.15: Moreover and in relation to practice around this topic, we turn our attention to available trauma-related resources. Ndindi talks about her school and how resources, if needed, will match the individual student whether that means the use of labelling or more clinical based work, though in her personal experience this exacerbated her trauma, and for this reason believes alternatives are a must.

12.53: By controlling certain types of behaviours, a traumatised person can be triggered and thus disempowered but through an education which includes the wider context, the outcome can be much more effective.

13.48: Ndindi believes the experiences of children and young people are already oppressed in society and don't always have options open to them. In this respect, their experiences are not always thought of as real and there's something in the way we use control in the name of safety and protection. She touches on how young people are developmentally a bit more risk taking in her school and how they are making decisions for themselves.

14.31: I respond to this by asking Ndindi to tell us more about the micro school she founded with her partner and why she came away from the mainstream. Building skills, literacies and criticality but also life as a young person, identity and having agency is important in an academic setting according to Ndindi and she feels this is not being addressed in a progressive way which contributed to her exiting the mainstream. She talks about the upheaval of running her school over the 11 years it has been running.

17.22: I then ask Ndindi what is it that she does differently in her school for the students to develop their self-awareness. Ndindi talks us through the use of a 'brave' space model over a more traditional 'safe' space. In this brave space, students learn the tools for self-regulation and learn how to build a community with each other. It's a space where the young people can practice and experiment with articulating their own needs and through peer to peer support they learn to be responsive to each others' needs too.

Through reflection, no matter how long this takes or however it is shaped, we can become more self-aware, heal from trauma and build positive and effective relationships.

This series critically explores adversity and trauma, what it is and how it plays out in an educational context. In this episode, Jesus and I discuss trauma as real pain and how pedagogical knowledge is paramount for any professional working in this area to engage with conversations.

Jesus begins the show by discussing his journey into becoming an educator. Jesus describes the complexities of growing up working class in the U.S, witnessing first hand the devaluing of humanity and how this propelled him into advocating for social justice education.

Adverse experiences can be complex and traumatic but not always obvious to an educator who doesn't recognise this. Jesus highlights how when you have experienced difficulties in your own life, you then recognise the struggles of others. He goes on to talk about community struggle and working together to support one another through shared resources.

Jesus can see how, as an educator, young people in the classroom show the pain of their trauma. He has genuine concerns about how these young people internalise their inferiority and continues with how the oppressed can go on to become the oppressor - something that needs to be curtailed.

08.56: After a short discussion around those with different sets of experiences creating alliances and engaging in open dialogue, I ask Jesus if he agrees there can be multiple difficulties in reaching out to young people with a history of unresolved adversity and trauma, when trying to engage them in the learning process. Jesus responds by telling me how we need to reflect on our privilege, our power and our differences; reflecting on what makes us whole.

10.00: Jesus discusses the need for multiple forms of training as educators, continuing with the challenges around this in academia. For Jesus, educators need to look at the source of the pain of those they teach, though of course, being mindful of trauma triggers. For educators to embrace people's humanity, there's a need to examine the multiple traumas and oppression people face.

11.09 Jesus asks how much stress creates trauma. It is a question not generally asked when we think about what trauma is. Poverty and other disadvantage however, is stressful in itself. Stress is held in our being and we have to find the healing to work with a multiplicity of traumas.

12.10: I respond to Jesus by asking him if, in his opinion, he feels the trauma training received is adequate to cope with the multiplicity of traumas. Jesus talks about the gap in pedagogical knowledge in trauma-informed pedagogies and feels that this hasn't been addressed. He believes if we are to have an authentic caring for our communities we must serve and be conscious of intergenerational and historical traumas.

13.22: Jesus and I discuss how trauma is not very well understood and educators have to be careful to not re-traumatise those they work with. Jesus provides a personal account of how this can play out in the classroom.

15.21: Jesus calls for more pedagogy and learning after I pose the question, 'in your opinion, do you feel all educational practitioners should be trauma-informed. Without continuing to raise the bar in training we will continue to reproduce the inequities that already exist.

Jesus gives us an example of how he works through the challenges in his classrooms and we finish the show with talking about having open dialogue and creating alliances including interdisciplinary alliances. We need to continue to push forward trauma-informed policy and practice if we are to eliminate the view of a deficit in humanity.