Creating Win/Win Where It Seems Least Likely with guest Sheriff Eric S. Higgins

The title of this episode is Creating Win/Win Where it Seems Least Likely! That’s because when win/win dynamics are created and power is expanded and then used to foster the good of many, this gives everyone hope about what’s possible where it might seem impossible! It also highlights what conditions and conversations are needed to get such a win/win result when it seems the least likely. This is why I am so excited to introduce my guest to you. He has had the courage and the heart to bring innovation where most people see only negative behavior, often feel hopeless, and can be harshly judgmental - when they consider prisons!

In my work in applied Adlerian psychology, I know that where positive outcomes are most mind-blowing are in prisons. That’s why as soon as I set up my show in January, I immediately invited my next guest on this show! I am thrilled beyond belief to introduce you to him - Sheriff Eric. S. Higgins, best known by many for his innovative approaches to law enforcement and rehabilitation that have drawn national recognition, including being the visionary behind Netflix's Unlocked: A Jail Experiment series. This is where I became passionate about inviting Sheriff Higgins on my show. Questions I may be asking could include:

1. For most people, the prison system has always been a place to house criminals and to mete out punishment. Can you tell our listeners about this experiment and what it is in your own background that helped you shift from a power-over, punishing mindset to one in which you prioritized encouraging the men in that unit to create a caring community?

2. I recall you saying that if we treat people as humans rather than sub-human, they will likely act better. We call this taking people out of the monster box. What helped you to see the men in the unit as capable of using their personal power in a positive way?

3. I noticed that at first, the older inmates set themselves up in the role of “elders” and proceeded to try and use a conventional autocratic “management” approach with the younger inmates which did not go over well! How did you feel as you watched the conventional control models of those who decided to be the “elders” when they showed up at the start of the project?

4. Did you feel confident about the process and how directly connected did you stay in terms of watching the video feed and adjusting your approach?

5. What did you learn and what do you think they learned from this phase of the experiment?

6. What you put in place there led to the men growing in care for one another and more focused on their future. Do you believe the lessons that you, the other law enforcement personnel, and the inmates all learned in this experiment could help our society in general and if so, what lessons specifically? And, how might they be helpful to anyone in any setting, in our society?

7. In researching you for this episode, I noticed some people were angry with your vision for this experiment because they were so deeply committed to punishment as the priority, not rehabilitation. How much resistance did you get from people before, during and after this experiment? How did you overcome it? What are your thoughts about this?

8. When authority figures in a prison system adopt a firm and respectful approach like you did, and expect goodness from people, and demonstrate a belief in equality and dignity for all, we know that recidivism is greatly reduced. We have seen this when our own psychology model has been used in a similar way. You said recidivism in your prison was around 50%. What was it at the end of the 6 weeks and what has happened since then?

9. Did you ever truly have doubts once it started?

10. How often did you watch the video feed?

11. At the end of the show, the experiment was going to be started in other cell blocks. How is it going?

12. How have things evolved and what were the greatest lessons you learned?

Watch: https://youtu.be/HTNVBxrFV3o