Guest:

• Chris Sistrunk, Technical Leader, OT Consulting, Mandiant

Topics:

• When we hear "attacks on Operational Technology (OT)" some think of Stuxnet targeting PLCs or even backdoored pipeline control software plot in the 1980s. Is this space always so spectacular or are there less "kaboom" style attacks we are more concerned about in practice?
• Given the old "air-gapped" mindset of many OT environments, what are the most common security gaps or blind spots you see when organizations start to integrate cloud services for things like data analytics or remote monitoring?
• How is the shift to cloud connectivity - for things like data analytics, centralized management, and remote access - changing the security posture of these systems? What's a real-world example of a positive security outcome you've seen as a direct result of this cloud adoption?
• How do the Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures outlined in the MITRE ATT&CK for ICS framework change or evolve when attackers can leverage cloud-based reconnaissance and command-and-control infrastructure to target OT networks? Can you provide an example?
• OT environments are generating vast amounts of operational data. What is interesting for OT Detection and Response (D&R)?

Resources:

• Video version
• Cybersecurity Forecast 2026 report by Google
• Complex, hybrid manufacturing needs strong security. Here's how CISOs can get it done blog
• "Security Guidance for Cloud-Enabled Hybrid Operational Technology Networks" paper by Google Cloud Office of the CISO
• DEF CON 23 - Chris Sistrunk - NSM 101 for ICS
• MITRE ATT&CK for ICS

Guest:

• Bruce Schneier

Topics:

• Do you believe that AI is going to end up being a net improvement for defenders or attackers? Is short term vs long term different?
• We're excited about the new book you have coming out with your co-author Nathan Sanders "Rewiring Democracy". We want to ask the same question, but for society: do you think AI is going to end up helping the forces of liberal democracy, or the forces of corruption, illiberalism, and authoritarianism?
• If exploitation is always cheaper than patching (and attackers don't follow as many rules and procedures), do we have a chance here?
• If this requires pervasive and fast "humanless" automatic patching (kinda like what Chrome does for years), will this ever work for most organizations?
• Do defenders have to do the same and just discover and fix issues faster? Or can we use AI somehow differently?
• Does this make defense in depth more important?
• How do you see AI as changing how society develops and maintains trust?

Resources:

• "Rewiring Democracy" book
• "Informacracy Trilogy" book
• Agentic AI's OODA Loop Problem
• EP255 Separating Hype from Hazard: The Truth About Autonomous AI Hacking
• AI and Trust
• AI and Data Integrity
• EP223 AI Addressable, Not AI Solvable: Reflections from RSA 2025
• RSA 2025: AI's Promise vs. Security's Past — A Reality Check

Guest:

• Heather Adkins, VP of Security Engineering, Google

Topic:

• The term "AI Hacking Singularity" sounds like pure sci-fi, yet you and some other very credible folks are using it to describe an imminent threat. How much of this is hyperbole to shock the complacent, and how much is based on actual, observed capabilities today?
• Can autonomous AI agents really achieve that "exploit - at - machine - velocity" without human intervention for the zero-day discovery phase?
• On the other hand, why may it actually not happen?
• When we talk about autonomous AI attack platforms, are we talking about highly resourced nation-states and top-tier criminal groups, or will this capability truly be accessible to the average threat actor within the next 6-12 months? What's the "Metasploit" equivalent for AI-powered exploitation that will be ubiquitous?
• Can you paint a realistic picture of the worst-case scenario that autonomous AI hacking enables? Is it a complete breakdown of patch cycles, a global infrastructure collapse, or something worse?
• If attackers are operating at "machine speed," the human defender is fundamentally outmatched. Is there a genuine "AI-to-AI" counter-tactic that doesn't just devolve into an infinite arms race? Or can we counter without AI at all?
• Given that AI can expedite vulnerability discovery, how does this amplified threat vector impact the software supply chain? If a dependency is compromised within minutes of a new vulnerability being created, does this force the industry to completely abandon the open-source model, or does it demand a radical, real-time security scanning and patching system that only a handful of tech giants can afford?
• Are current proposed regulations, like those focusing on model safety or disclosure, even targeting the right problem?
• If the real danger is the combinatorial speed of autonomous attack agents, what simple, impactful policy change should world governments prioritize right now?

Resources:

• "Autonomous AI hacking and the future of cybersecurity" article
• EP20 Security Operations, Reliability, and Securing Google with Heather Adkins
• Introducing CodeMender: an AI agent for code security
• EP251 Beyond Fancy Scripts: Can AI Red Teaming Find Truly Novel Attacks?
• Daniel Miessler site and podcast
• "How SAIF can accelerate secure AI experiments" blog
• "Staying on top of AI Developments" blog