Fairness is one of the first ideas we learn as kids, and it never stops shaping how we see justice. We sit down with Dr. Kerry Sautner, president and CEO of Eastern State Penitentiary Historic Site, to unpack the Eighth Amendment’s compact promise: no excessive bail or fines, and no cruel and unusual punishment. From there, the conversation opens into the human questions that text demands we face—what counts as cruel, who decides, and how do standards change as society and science evolve.

We trace the history behind the Amendment’s key words and why “unusual” was written to move with time. That leads us to the question of proportionality: Does the punishment fit the crime? We explore incorporation through the 14th Amendment, which extends these protections to the states, and examine how courts gauge national consensus by scanning state laws, jury practices, and expert evidence. Along the way, we examine solitary confinement and what medical research now shows about the brain after two weeks alone, raising the tension between tradition and proof.

The death penalty takes center stage as a case study in evolving standards of decency. We talk about juveniles, intellectual disability, and what neuroscience reveals about responsibility and foresight. We also confront the practical and ethical puzzles of lethal injection—its risk of severe pain, the refusal of medical professionals to participate, and what that says about dignity under the law. Throughout, we highlight the danger of irreversible error and why a system built to restrain government power must be careful, consistent, and humane, even with people who have done terrible harm.

If you care about criminal justice reform, constitutional law, or simply the difference between punishment and cruelty, this conversation will challenge and ground your thinking. Listen, share with a friend, and tell us where you draw the line on decency today. Subscribe for more deep dives, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Eastern State Penitentiary Episode

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School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership

Center for American Civics

A single sentence in the Bill of Rights has fueled decades of confusion, debate, and hot takes—so we went back to the source to make sense of it. We trace the Ninth Amendment from the founding-era fight over a federal Bill of Rights to James Madison’s original, clearer draft, and show how its real job is to keep the federal government within its enumerated lane rather than serve as a grab bag of unlisted rights. Along the way, we unpack why the Amendment made perfect sense to early readers steeped in federalism, and why later courts stumbled once incorporation brought most of the Bill of Rights to bear on the states.

We walk through the Federalist case from James Wilson and Alexander Hamilton, the critics’ fear that enumerating rights could imply broader federal power, and Madison’s fix: a rule of construction that prevents the list of rights from enlarging national authority. That lens clarifies modern controversies. Should judges treat the Ninth as a source of enforceable rights against the states? Most justices have said no, warning that it would flip the Amendment’s purpose and strain federalism. We examine Robert Bork’s “inkblot” line, the real methodological challenge of identifying “other rights,” and why state courts—armed with their own Ninth-like clauses—face a different set of choices rooted in state constitutional tradition.

If you’ve ever wondered whether the Ninth Amendment hides secret rights or simply protects the Constitution’s structure, this conversation delivers a grounded answer. You’ll come away with a sharper grasp of the Amendment’s text, history, and function, plus a clearer view of how it fits with the Tenth, incorporation, and the ongoing push and pull between national power and state authority. If this helped reframe how you read the Ninth, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to tell us what you think.

Check Out the Civic Literacy Curriculum!

School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership

Center for American Civics

The quiet that fell on November 11, 1918 did more than end a war—it sparked a living promise we renew every time we show up for one another. We start with the origin of Armistice Day and trace how America reshaped it into Veterans Day, a commitment that honors every veteran’s service while challenging the rest of us to carry freedom forward through daily civic action.

I sit down with Representative Stacy Travers, a U.S. Army veteran and Arizona lawmaker, to unpack how the mission-first mindset translates from the field to the floor. Stacy shares how discipline, humility, and teamwork guide her approach to policy, and why results for constituents matter more than party labels. We explore the ripple effects of service organizations, the transformative power of the GI Bill, and how the integration of the armed forces helped accelerate civil rights—clear examples of how military service has shaped American democracy beyond the battlefield.

Together we dig into what freedom really means in practice: the right to vote, to learn, to work, to be safe, and to pursue happiness. Stacy reflects on seeing Germany before and after the wall fell, a reminder that political choices write themselves into daily life. We talk about listening across differences, keeping faith with a “seven generations” lens, and turning gratitude into action—whether that’s mentoring, volunteering, supporting veteran-led groups, or simply taking time to learn a veteran’s story.

If this conversation moves you, subscribe, share the episode with someone you care about, and leave a review. Then tell us: what’s one concrete way you’ll serve your community this week?

Check Out the Civic Literacy Curriculum!

School of Civic and Economic Thought and Leadership

Center for American Civics