Natural cider is often misunderstood as funky, volatile, or flawed.
Recorded live at CiderCon 2025, this seminar reframes natural cider as a philosophy of low intervention, balance, and intentional care, not a free pass for faults.

Moderator Haritz is joined by Richard of Brooklyn Cider House and Jasper Smith of Son of Man (Oregon) to explore how Basque cider traditions influence modern natural cider production in the U.S. The panel dives into fermentation choices, malolactic fermentation, volatile acidity, sensory evaluation, and why great natural cider is defined by quality, not dogma.

This conversation also examines how natural cider is judged in Spain, what tasting panels consider true faults, and why these ciders are designed first and foremost to be enjoyed with food.

Ciders featured:
Zapiain (Basque Country), Son of Man (Oregon), and Solstice (Brooklyn Cider House)

Episode 489 Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Basque Cider

00:25 Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller

00:42 The Magic of Sidra Natural

01:41 Exploring Natural Cider Production

02:32 Cider FOMO and CiderCon

03:34 Cider Chat Milestones and YouTube Channel

05:21 Thanking the Cider Chat Patrons

08:44 Featured Presentation: Natural Cider Panel

09:23 Defining Natural Cider

11:32 Production Techniques and Philosophies

27:05 Harvest Strategies and Apple Varieties

36:21 Exploring the Price Range of Ciders

37:01 The Science Behind Well-Integrated Volatile Acidity

38:31 The Role of Malolactic Fermentation in Cider

39:55 Tasting Panels and Quality Control in Basque Cider

42:44 Cider Pairing with Food: A Gastronomic Experience

44:31 The Cultural Significance of Cider in Spain

51:31 The Importance of Apple Varieties in Cider Making

55:43 Challenges and Rewards of Natural Cider Production

01:01:48 Final Thoughts and Future of Cider

01:06:55 Conclusion and Farewell

Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com
Episode 489: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/489-natural-cider-production/

Listen to Episode 489 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

Prefer to watch?
Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat.
Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

A pending lawsuit spearheaded by Ron Extract of Garden Path Fermentation could change how cider makers label harvest year and "vintage" on cider over 7% ABV. Ron explains why the current TTB rules block truthful harvest-year labeling, how this impacts both producers and consumers, and what success would look like for the cider community.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:43 Cider Labeling Controversy

02:46 News and Events in the Cider World

04:56 Upcoming Cider Tours

09:16 Featured Presentation: Ron Extract on Cider Labeling Lawsuit

42:21 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Find the full show notes to this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 488 https://ciderchat.com/podcast/488-vintage-cider-label-lawsuit/

Listen to Episode 488 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat

Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

• Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it)
• What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (depending on the fruit)
• The "custard stage" vs. fully bletted "medlar-like" stage (and how this relates to cider pressing windows)
• Ben's sorb travel finds across:
  • Croatia (including fruit for sale at the market + trees growing in yards)
  • Moravia (Czech Republic) — including the Sorbus museum and harvest festival
  • France (sorb hunting with Arnold and tasting cormé/cormé-style ferments)
  • Somerset, UK (a surprise roadside discovery!)
• Growth habits that can make Sorbus domestica look like an oak
• Why sorbs may matter in a changing climate:
  • deep root systems
  • drought resistance
  • long lifespan
  • later bloom time (less frost risk)
• Seed-grown vs grafted sorbs — and why Ben prefers genetic diversity (for now)
• The surprising reality: sorbs have already been distributed widely in the U.S. through seedlings
• What's being made with sorbs in Europe:
  • brandy
  • co-ferments with grapes
  • wine experiments

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction to Sorbus Domestica

00:18 Meet the Podcast Host: Ria Windcaller

00:52 Exploring Sorbus Domestica: History and Uses

01:25 Cider Chat Episodes Featuring Sorbus Domestica

02:39 Sorbus Domestica in France and the US

04:05 Cider News and Upcoming Events

07:53 Interview with Ben Kunesh: Chocolate Pears

08:33 The Unique Characteristics of Sorbus Domestica

17:25 Sorbus Domestica Around the World

21:03 The Versatility and Adaptability of Sorbus Domestica

24:20 The Future of Sorbus Domestica in Orchards

25:49 Sorbus Domestica: A Historical Perspective

27:34 Ben's Travels and Discoveries

34:25 Exploring Sorbus Domestica Variations

35:30 Propagation Techniques and Genetic Diversity

37:29 Historical Context and Distribution

39:50 Nursery and Distribution Efforts

41:09 European Adventures and Discoveries

45:30 Tasting Sorbus Domestica Products

54:23 Future Prospects and Cultivation Tips

01:00:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

🎧 Listen to Episode 487 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.

📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.

💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat

Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.