Chickens Are Individuals: Inside the Hidden Costs of Industrial Egg Production | Ep9

What if the biggest problem with the egg industry isn’t just how chickens are housed—but how we’ve learned not to see them at all?

Dr. Johnny Lieberman welcomes Joyce Tischler, Professor of Law and co-founder of the Animal Legal Defense Fund, to unpack the realities of modern industrial egg production. Drawing from decades of legal work—and a recent personal experience rescuing chickens from a closing egg facility—Joyce explains how breeding, confinement, and misleading consumer labels obscure the profound suffering embedded in “cheap” animal products.

The conversation reframes chickens not as interchangeable units of production, but as individuals with personalities, social structures, and emotional responses—beings whose bodies have been genetically pushed beyond their limits to maximize output. Together, they challenge common assumptions about “organic,” “cage-free,” and “free-range” labels, exposing how little those terms actually improve animal welfare.

This episode invites listeners to question long-held narratives, confront cognitive dissonance around food choices, and consider small, realistic ways to reduce harm—whether by rethinking egg consumption, seeking local sources, or simply seeing farm animals more clearly for who they are.

Key Themes & Takeaways

• Chickens are individuals with distinct personalities and behaviors
• How selective breeding harms animals long before slaughter
• Why “organic” and “cage-free” labels often mislead consumers
• The physical toll of extreme egg production on hens
• How factory farming depends on emotional and physical distancing
• The role of cognitive dissonance in food choices
• Why true humane egg production is rare—and hard to verify
• Practical ways consumers can reduce harm without perfection

About the Guest

Joyce Tischler is a Professor of Law and co-founder of the Animal Legal Defense Fund. Her work focuses on animal law, industrial agriculture, and the legal systems that govern how animals are bred, raised, and commodified. Joyce has spent decades challenging factory farming practices and is currently co-authoring a first-of-its-kind casebook on industrial animal agriculture law.

About the Show

Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health explores the intersection of animal welfare, public policy, and human health. Hosted by Dr. Johnny Lieberman, each episode invites changemakers, legal experts, and health advocates to shed light on what really impacts our communities—and what we can do about it.

About the Host

Dr. Johnny Lieberman is a physician, public health advocate, and lifelong animal lover with a passion for connecting the dots between animal welfare, human behavior, and the systems that shape our lives. With a background in both medicine and public health policy, Johnny brings a unique lens to conversations about how our treatment of animals impacts human health, the environment, and social justice.

In Puppies, Pandemics, and Public Health, Johnny brings warmth, curiosity, and a dash of wit to tough conversations that matter. From exposing the realities of factory farming to uncovering the links between zoonotic diseases and our food systems, his goal is to empower listeners to be informed, compassionate, and engaged citizens—while still keeping it real (and sometimes bringing in puppies).

Whether he's discussing legislative loopholes or snuggling his rescue dog between recordings, Dr. Lieberman believes that creating a healthier world starts with how we treat its most vulnerable beings.

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