In this episode, James Tripp introduces the powerful distinction between first-order and second-order change. First-order changes are modifications made within an existing system that ultimately change nothing—like rearranging chess pieces while still playing the same losing game. Second-order changes break the rules of the system entirely, requiring creative acts outside the current logic that keeps problems perpetuating. James explains how effective therapy and change work depends on helping clients escape their rigid frameworks and "the more, the more” patterns (the more I try to fix this, the worse it gets) through illogical, creative engagement rather than logical solutions. This concept underpins approaches from Ericksonian hypnosis to IFS, explaining why all successful therapies share this common thread. Timestamps: [00:00:00] Introduction to the episode [00:01:00] First-order vs second-order change distinction explained [00:01:15] The chess game metaphor - change that changes nothing [00:02:15] Example: Trying to write a book the same way repeatedly [00:02:45] How the logic of a system perpetuates the problem [00:03:00] Insomnia example - desperation perpetuating the problem [00:03:30] Attempted solutions becoming part of the problem pattern [00:04:15] Why Erickson used "crazy stuff" that doesn't make sense [00:04:30] Connecting to adaptive intelligence and novel solutions [00:05:00] Left hemisphere logic vs right hemisphere creativity [00:05:45] The nine-dot problem as an example [00:06:30] The origin of "thinking outside the box" [00:07:30] Unconscious rules blocking pathways to solutions [00:08:00] Relationship dynamics example - pursuing creates withdrawal [00:08:30] The "more pattern" - doing more of what doesn't work [00:09:30] Erickson's approach: "There's nothing you need to do" [00:10:00] Stop doing and start allowing - switching hemispheres [00:11:00] Context and expectations in change work [00:11:45] Hypnotherapy frame allowing for "weird and illogical" [00:12:30] All effective therapists get people outside their logic [00:13:00] IFS requires creative participation [00:14:00] There is no "correct logical process" for change [00:14:30] Staying in the framework vs stepping outside it [00:15:30] Listening for rigidity in client frameworks [00:16:00] NLP presupposition: "Do something different, anything different" [00:16:30] Being recruited by the problem [00:17:00] Clean language and the impulse to "get rid of it" [00:18:00] How IFS builds in second-order changes [00:18:45] First-order/second-order as the "golden thread" across therapies [00:19:15] How reframing works - offering different conceptual frameworks [00:20:15] Getting people to play a different game entirely [00:21:00] Patterns that perpetuate vs patterns that play through [00:21:30] Changing the rules changes the whole game [00:22:00] Chess "castling" example - rule added centuries later [00:22:15] Martial arts rules changing outcomes [00:23:30] Unconscious rule sets blocking outcomes [00:24:15] Signs you're stuck in a thinking box [00:25:15] Red flags in initial client emails [00:25:45] When clients tell you exactly what they want you to do [00:26:30] "If you think you're part of the solution, you might be part of the problem" [00:27:00] Solution-focused advertising engaging left hemisphere logic [00:28:00] The real solution will be a surprise [00:28:30] Holding an outcome like holding a baby bird [00:29:30] Working with rigidly locked-in clients [00:30:00] Pacing and leading vs getting beyond logic quickly [00:31:00] "Your best thinking got you here" [00:31:30] PTSD example - shifting from mind to body [00:33:00] Invitation to "just go with it and notice" [00:33:15] The "more pattern" signature of first-order change [00:33:30] Weight loss and eating control example [00:35:30] "Let the medicine do its work" - breaking the more pattern [00:37:00] Conversational hypnosis as reorganizing reality [00:38:00] Inviting people into different conceptual renderings [00:39:00] Difference between classical suggestion and Ericksonian approach [00:40:00] Changing rules vs giving instructions [00:40:45] When rules change, behavior changes by default [00:41:00] Closing and contact information changeworkingpod@gmail.com www.clientshifts.com

First: This is incredibly human.
If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re good enough, feared not being able to help, or felt pressure to deliver a result… you’re not alone. These are deeply human experiences. They don’t make you a bad coach—they just make you a person doing work that matters to you. That in itself is a good sign.

Second: We don’t get to control complex systems.
This is a foundational distinction for me. There are two types of systems in the world:
• Complicated systems, like machines, where all the parts and dependencies are knowable and can be managed.
• Complex systems, like people, where many of the interdependencies are unknown and even unknowable.
Coaching lives in the domain of complex systems. We cannot predict what will happen. We cannot control it. What we can do is bring curiosity, responsiveness, presence, and creativity to the moment—and see what emerges.

Third: You’re not the agent of change.
You’re the catalyst. One of the most liberating frames I’ve ever adopted is that I am not the one who “makes” change happen. I don’t “fix” the client. I don’t “make” them change. That’s not my job—and it never was. Instead, I see myself as a catalyst—a participant in a co-creative flow. My job is to create conditions that support the client’s own generative intelligence—the deep inner faculty that actually does the learning, shifting, adapting. That creative intelligence lives in every client. It built their language. It built their identity. It knows how to build new responses. And our job is to help it come back online.

Fourth: Let go of outcome pressure.
There is no universal law that says, “You must get a result in every session.” That’s not how change work works. That’s not how life works. When we take excess responsibility for outcomes, we place ourselves in a trance—a controlling trance. And ironically, we do our worst work from that place. The more we can unhook from needing to “get it right,” the more creative, present, and effective we become. Instead of pressure, choose curiosity. Instead of control, choose participation. Instead of needing to prove something, choose to play.

Fifth: If this is something you struggle with—beautiful.
This is part of the work. This is part of the unfolding. You’re not behind. You’re not broken. You’re just walking a path that includes unwinding old conditioning, unhooking identity from performance, and coming back into relationship with the deeper intelligence in you and in your client. You don’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to know everything. You don’t even have to feel confident. But you do get to keep showing up. You do get to bring presence, curiosity, and care. And you do get to let this work change you as you offer it to others.

In this episode, Ruckus and James explore the idea of showmanship and performance in effective changework, drawing connections between hypnosis, shamanism, acting, and public speaking. The conversation covers practical techniques for incorporating performance elements into coaching and therapy, the distinction between information versus evocation, and how practitioners can expand their communication repertoire to create greater impact with clients.

Timestamps

[00:00:00] Introduction to showmanship and performance in change work

[00:01:00] Why performers make better hypnotists - magic vs therapy backgrounds

[00:01:45] The roots of showmanship in shamanism - "The Death and Resurrection Show"

[00:02:30] Performance as suggestion beyond just words

[00:03:30] Historical hypnotists and the ritual experience

[00:05:00] Bandler vs Grinder - performer vs academic approaches

[00:06:00] On-stage vs off-stage personas in hypnosis

[00:06:15] Playing "one across" vs "one up" - Erickson as performer

[00:08:45] Information versus evocation in communication

[00:09:45] Performance pieces and marking significance

[00:10:30] Street hypnosis and "witch doctoring" techniques

[00:12:00] Head, heart, and gut - using tone for energy shifts

[00:13:15] Ed Jacobs and impact therapy - standing out vs blending in

[00:14:15] David Grove's quadrant model - conversational vs psychoactive

[00:16:15] Steve Chandler - comedy preparation for coaching weekends

[00:18:15] Martin Luther King Jr. and the power of moving people

[00:19:45] The Meisner method - learning lines vs bringing them to life

[00:21:00] Hypnotic language delivery examples

[00:23:00] Acting and oratory training vs technique training

[00:24:00] Theater, Toastmasters, and NLP trainer development

[00:26:30] Teaching screenwriting with hypnotic language

[00:27:30] Bandler and Grinder - "shell vs nut" in Erickson's work

[00:28:45] Tai Chi teaching with Milton language patterns

[00:31:15] Analog marking - feeling artificial at first

[00:32:15] Clint Eastwood and Christopher Walken's performance styles

[00:33:00] Anticipation hooks and pausing techniques

[00:34:00] Storytelling order and performance impact

[00:35:45] Pre-verbal sounds and emotional responses

[00:37:00] Parking ticket story - nonverbal communication power

[00:38:30] Jerry Spence and emotional communication

[00:40:30] Animal sounds exercise for emotional release

[00:42:00] Film pitching vs writing skills comparison

[00:43:15] Willingness to perform - overcoming comfort zones

[00:44:00] "Shatning" - William Shatner as performance model

[00:46:15] Modeling and deep trance identification

[00:47:30] Steve Chandler - "Practice makes the unnatural, natural"

[00:48:15] Comedian mimicry and implicit learning

[00:49:00] Comic timing as implicit vs explicit knowledge

[00:50:45] Modeling Darren Brown and Richard Osterlind

[00:51:30] Aesthetics vs pragmatics in hypnosis style

[00:53:45] Closing thoughts on performance in change work

In this episode of Changeworking, Ruckus and James Tripp dive deep into one of the most fundamental aspects of human psychology: identity. They explore how who you think you are directly shapes how you behave, and why all meaningful change work requires some shift in identity. Ruckus discovers that simply changing the language from "identity" to "self-concept" produces completely different answers about himself—revealing the hidden power of words to unlock new perspectives. James shares why he believes "self-concept is destiny" and how our maps of self and world interact to create our sense of safety. Plus, Ruckus tells a surprising personal story from his own therapy sessions about a part of him that was sabotaging his progress because it feared losing its sense of who he was.

[00:00:45] What is identity and how does it affect changework?
[00:04:00] How identity stabilizes our way of being and limits what we see as possible
[00:05:30] The interaction between our map of self and map of the world
[00:06:30] "Self-concept is destiny" - how beliefs about ourselves change everything
[00:08:45] Using identity-level questions in change work
[00:12:52] Are identity, self-concept, and ego all the same thing?
[00:15:15] Ruckus's personal discovery - how different words unlock different answers
[00:19:45] The power of language to evoke rather than just inform
[00:24:00] Robert Kegan's "new language culture" and getting unstuck
[00:27:30] Why there's no "getting identity right" - it must constantly evolve
[00:29:15] Working with veterans - when old identity no longer fits new life
[00:31:30] Should practitioners work directly on identity or indirectly?
[00:35:15] Ruckus's therapy story - the part that sabotaged progress to preserve identity
[00:37:00] The fear of losing yourself and "investing in loss"
[00:40:00] Seven different ways to ask about identity

What does it really mean when a client “goes psychoactive”? In this episode, Ruckus and James explore how deep engagement emerges — not from force, but from slowing down, dropping judgment, and leaning into possibility. From metaphors to memory reconsolidation, this conversation unpacks what makes transformation feel alive.

00:00 – Intro: What is psychoactive facilitation?
01:00 – James shares the origins of the term from David Grove’s quadrant model
05:00 – The difference between being in a state vs. describing one
09:00 – Ruckus connects psychoactive facilitation to immersive, imaginal states
14:00 – Psychoactive facilitation is dynamic dreaming — trance as co-creation
19:30 – Where psychoactive states meet changework
22:45 – How to tell when a client is going psychoactive
26:00 – Letting go of “what should happen” to allow emergence
31:30 – Being oriented toward possibility = psychoactive facilitation
35:00 – Creating conditions for unconscious engagement
41:50 – Stacking the odds toward psychoactive facilitation
44:00 – Closing thoughts and outro

Email: changeworkingpod@gmail.com

Website: www.clientshifts.com

Changeworking is produced by Ruckus Skye.

#podcast #changework #hypnosis #nlp #coaching #coach #CoachingTools #ClientBreakthroughs

🎙️

Where do our beliefs come from—and how many of them do we actually know we have?
In this episode, Ruckus and James dig deep into the murky, layered world of unconscious beliefs and the way they silently shape our reality.

From invisible operating systems to emotional trances masquerading as truth, this conversation unpacks the complexity of belief in changework.

They touch on everything from Byron Katie’s process to Taoist ideas of truth and usefulness, all through the lens of real-world examples and client work.
This one’s especially for the practitioners who want to help clients loosen the grip of what feels true—but isn’t necessarily serving.

⏱️ Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: Beliefs you don’t know you have
01:00 – James’ lead guitar example: the trance of capability
04:00 – Fairness, rights, and Byron Katie’s belief-turnaround process
09:00 – Truth vs. usefulness: the map is not the territory
14:00 – Worrying as a false strategy
16:30 – Truth traps and psychological freedom
20:00 – Chairs, clients, and belief as operating system
22:00 – Key operational concepts: control, trust, and love
27:00 – Blocky renderings vs. fluid metaphors in client beliefs
30:00 – Speculative semantic modeling: guessing what makes a belief make sense
34:00 – Modeling from people who live life differently
38:00 – Self-osmosis and living into new beliefs
40:00 – Closing thoughts: belief change as essential to transformation

CONTACT
Email: changeworkingpod@gmail.com
Website: www.clientshifts.com

Changeworking is produced by Ruckus Skye.

#podcast #changework #hypnosis #nlp #coaching #coach #CoachingTools #ClientBreakthroughs

🎙️ Changeworking — S1E7: Mind Shifts & Meta-Awareness What does it mean to witness your own process? In this episode, Ruckus and James explore the power of meta-awareness in changework — both for ourselves and for our clients. From recognizing when a mind shift occurs, to understanding how trance and identity are often one and the same, this conversation digs into the subtle but powerful layers of how change happens. They unpack: • The idea that “all trance is identity” • Why curiosity is one of the most powerful resources in change • How to help clients notice and integrate their own breakthroughs • What makes a moment truly transformative — and why it can’t be forced Whether you’re facilitating change or navigating it yourself, this episode is all about learning to spot the ember of transformation and gently blow on it. ⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro: What are mind shifts and meta-awareness? 01:00 – The link between trance, identity, and “parts in the executive” 04:00 – Developing a meta-self: witnessing vs. being had by your process 07:00 – Resilience, trauma, and psychological “landscapes” 10:00 – Why client interest and curiosity matter more than technique 13:00 – Milton Erickson and unconscious meta-awareness 17:00 – Coaching the uninterested client — working with “desperation” 20:00 – Why some clients are just more fun to work with 23:00 – What actually creates a shift? The power of hypnotic explanation 27:00 – Spotting the moment of transformation — and what to do with it 30:00 – Instagram platitudes vs. lived insight 34:00 – Sydney Banks, the Three Principles, and throwaway-line epiphanies 36:30 – Complexity and emergence in changework 38:00 – A no-self moment on an airplane: James’ spontaneous shift 40:00 – Clients who know when they’ve had a shift 41:30 – Outro: How do we help clients develop meta-awareness? CONTACT Email: changeworkingpod@gmail.com Website: www.clientshifts.com Changeworking is produced by Ruckus Skye. #podcast #changework #hypnosis #nlp #coaching #coach #CoachingTools #ClientBreakthroughs

In this episode, hosts Ruckus and James Tripp explore the concept of "parts work" - the idea that our minds consist of multiple parts or subpersonalities rather than a single unified self. They discuss how recognizing and working with these different parts can be a powerful framework for personal change and therapeutic practice. Both hosts share personal experiences with parts work approaches and discuss how understanding the multiplicity of mind can improve self-awareness, emotional regulation, and interpersonal relationships.

CHAPTERS:

00:00 - Introduction to parts work and the multiplicity of mind
04:45 - Working with metaphors and externalizing problems
08:00 - Why Ruckus is passionate about parts work
14:45 - The origin of parts-based approaches and Society of Mind
19:45 - How parts can have their own histories and narratives
25:15 - Working with resource parts and forming "teams" internally
30:30 - James' story about discovering a fear of rejection
37:45 - Becoming a witness to your own processes
42:45 - Simple techniques for working with activated parts
52:15 - Ultra-simple parts activation/deactivation technique
57:30 - Working with resistance and understanding parts in others

LINKS

Introduction to Internal Family Systems
by Richard Schwartz
https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Internal-Systems-Richard-Schwartz/dp/1683643615

Resource Therapy
by Dr Gordon Emmeson
https://www.amazon.com/Resource-Therapy-Gordon-Emmeson-PhD/dp/0992499518

Ego States: Theory and Therapy
by Helen H. Watkins & John G. Watkins
https://www.amazon.com/Ego-States-Helen-H-Watkins/dp/0393702596

CONTACT
Email:
changeworkingpod@gmail.com
Website:
www.clientshiftsacademy.com

Changeworking is produced by Ruckus Skye.

#podcast #changework #hypnosis #nlp #coaching #coach