In the final CNE podcast of 2025, host Evert van Vlastuin brings together Jeff Fountain (Schuman Centre of European Studies, based in the Netherlands) and Kevin Swanson (pastor and podcast host from Denver, Colorado) for a frank cross‑Atlantic conversation. The big question: are America and Europe simply in decline, or is God quietly at work in ways the headlines miss?

Swanson arrived with strong language about Europe as the “post-Christian” continent, in a [podcast](https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermons/2212565333861) after the Munich Security Conference. The “worship of man” had replaced the “fear of God”, he said, and the pro-life movement in Europe had shrunk to only seven pro‑lifers in the Netherlands. In this CNE conversation, those claims are put to the test.

In the CNE podcast, Kevin Swanson cheerfully admits that he sometimes uses an “Eeyore’s viewpoint”, referring to the pessimistic friend of Winnie the Pooh, in combination with an “occasional hyperbole”.

Jeff speaks about the “paradox of Europe”. On one side, it is most shaped by the Gospel and its rejection. However, he also sees surprising signs of hope, from high-profile converts like Ayaan Hirsi Ali to growing migrant congregations in cities like Amsterdam and London, and a “quiet revival” among Gen Z.

Kevin, by contrast, looks at “despicably low” church attendance rates and the power of humanist education, and wonders whether Europe’s foundations are already rotten.

Jeff Fountain is the author of *Deeply Rooted*, in which he explains the basis of European integration from the Christian convictions of Robert Schuman, who pleaded for reconciliation between nations.

Kevin says that he disagrees with the “popular eschatology” among American Evangelicals that says that Europe is the “beast” from the Apocalypse. But he still sees that the Enlightenment is destroying the foundation of the culture and that humanist ideology is guiding the schools on the continent.

During the podcast recording, the conversation takes a surprising turn: Swanson admits America needs less bravado and more repentance. Kevin disagrees with the continuous attacks on Europe from Donald Trump. He says he is no fan of the American President. “He is an accident waiting to happen”, although he had praised his re-election in an earlier podcast.

At the end, Jeff and Kevin agree that America and Europe are “equally in trouble”, also looking at the abortion legislation. They both feel “betrayed” by the present administration in Washington. Kevin: “I am working for a MAHA: Make America Humble Again.” But so far, he has not sold more than eight hats, he says.

With CNE podcast host Evert van Vlastuin, Jeff and Kevin share concerns about the transatlantic cooperation within NATO and other bodies.

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Organising a brothel was easier than having a Tupperware party, Frank Heinrich says. Before Germany introduced its new prostitution law, in 2017, regulations on brothels were shockingly loose. Even a Tupperware party was scrutinised more critically than the sex industry.

In the CNE podcast, he explains why more than 99 per cent of all stakeholders in this slavery system are men, why nobody knows precisely how many people are trafficked, and why he opposes a simple ban on prostitution.

Having worked with the Salvation Army, in the German Bundestag, and the Evangelical Alliance, Heinrich says this mission is closest to his heart. As his name is Frank, he loves freedom and “this became a life thing for me”, he tells.

The new prostitution legislation was introduced in 2017. That has already shed more light on the dark sector. But Frank believes further steps are needed. That includes the Nordic model, which penalises buyers rather than sellers of sex, whilst prostitution in itself could be decriminalised. When France introduced this system, the sex tourism in German border towns reportedly dropped within weeks.

Therefore, he advocates for this system to be introduced in Germany as well. “In ten years, I don’t want to live in a country that has not looked into this value”, he shares with CNE podcast host Evert van Vlastuin.

Germany is the “brothel of Europe”, the President of the German Parliament said recently. She echoes other authoritative sources.

To solve the problem, the help of other countries is necessary, Frank says. For this reason, he appreciates the several declarations of the European Parliament in favour of the Nordic model.

The organisation “Gemeinsam gegen Menschenhandel” is not specifically a Christian organisation. But many people who are involved in the battle against trafficking work from a Christian mindset, Frank says. “It is a reflection of my heart to be the spokesman for people who cannot speak for themselves. Trafficking is an affront to our values.”

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Many pastors in Europe became aware that God was calling them to the ministry after reading or listening MacArthur. That says Paul Mitchell, the European director of Grace to You.

Grace to You (GTY) is the organisation that coordinated much of MacArthur’s activities in California, US. The renowned American pastor passed away this July at the age of 86. But he was never a celebrity, Paul says.

MacArthur served the Grace Community Church in Los Angeles for 56 years. This is a Reformed Baptist congregation that is known worldwide. At this church, MacArthur spent 42 years on a sermon series about the New Testament, during which he preached on each verse. When he arrived as a young pastor, he negotiated a guaranteed 30 hours per week for study.

What was the result of this? Shortly after his death this summer, Charlie Kirk stated that MacArthur was among the top ten theologians after the Reformation.

In the podcast, Mitchell states that John MacArthur visited Europe frequently after the fall of the Iron Curtain in 1990. He mainly visited former Eastern Bloc countries, such as Romania and Ukraine.

What did he do there? Supporting pastors. “The people that he loves the most outside his family and his church are pastors”, Paul Mitchell shares with CNE podcast host Evert van Vlastuin.

There are at least two organisations that grew out of MacArthur’s work, and those are The Master’s Academy International (TMAI), which has stations worldwide. The other is the European Bible Training Center (EBTC) in Germany and Switzerland.

At the moment, his extensive catalogue of teaching is now accessible in several languages –including Romanian and Spanish– thanks to re-preaching projects such as Grace Reaches Out.

MacArthur knew that he was famous, but he remained humble, Mitchel says. In the podcast, he shares whether MacArthur preferred to be announced as Doctor or as John. There is also an interesting detail about Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ study desk.

Grace to You Europe has an office in Ashford in the English county of Kent, near London.

Listeners of the podcast will hear in several audio clips how MacArthur never bowed to the prevailing winds of culture. Whether challenging trends in Western Europe or critiquing stances on morality, his focus has consistently remained on the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

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