Affiliate links? No thanks.

Pop-ups over panels? Think again.

A content creator using AI to replace herself? Now we’re listening.

Season 2 of Building Brand Advocacy is officially in-swing.

This week, Verity’s in New York with Gigi Robinson – a Creator Expert, Social Specialist, Founder, Chronic Illness Advocate, and trusted partner to brands like Liquid IV, obé Fitness, and Stanford University (yes, really).

If you want a real-time pulse check on how creators are thinking (and how your brand should be collaborating) you won’t find a realer guide than Gigi.

The partnerships that worked in 2017? They don’t land in 2025. The best creators now expect co-creation, cross-platform collaboration, and a seat at the strategy table.

It’s time to ditch the playbook, and build something better.

Turn this episode on & up to learn how to…

• Bin the Conversion-at-All-Costs Model: Gigi breaks down why affiliate deals often miss the mark, and how misaligned incentives turn creators into unpaid salespeople. Instead: hybrid models, consent-first structures, and a focus on value over volume.

• Build with Creators, Not Just Through Them: The smartest brands are already collaborating before content hits the feed. When creators understand the “why,” they deliver work that moves people – not just products.

• Rethink the Role of Real-Life: Pop-ups get attention. Panels and curated dinners create Advocates. Learn why deeper, more intentional offline moments are the real unlock for connection.

• Use AI the Way Creators Actually Are: From replacing assistants to scaling content across five platforms from one idea, creators are using AI now. Marketers who embrace this shift can brief better, expect more, and move faster.

• Understand the Creator Lifecycle: Micro, macro, mega – it’s not a straight line anymore. Learn what marketers are missing when creators ‘grow out’ of their lane, and how to evolve with them instead of cycling them out.

This isn’t about more than content. It’s about connection.

This conversation will challenge you, while giving you the steps to start again, smarter.

Listen. Rethink. Build better partnerships.

Chapters

00:00 – Finding What Authenticity Really Looks Like

07:05 – The Creator Economy Has Only Just Begun

13:04 – Why Affiliate Models Are Missing the Mark

18:56 – How Brand-Creator Relationships Are Evolving

25:10 – AI, Live Shopping & the Future of Content

32:06 – What Brands Still Get Wrong About Advocacy

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Connect with Gigi:

On LinkedIn

On Instagram

On TikTok

What’s rarer than viral growth, and more powerful than performance marketing?

Sustained Advocacy.

It’s what the brands on this show have built, and what this 100th episode is here to celebrate.

To mark the special milestone, Paul & Verity are looking back on the unforgettable moments, tactics, and truths from 100 conversations with the sharpest minds in brand building – the CMOs, Founders, and community-first Marketers behind some of the world’s fastest-growing names.

This is more than a recap. It’s a look ahead to where marketing is heading next.

Hit play to learn how to…

• Build With, Not For: Advocacy-first brands don’t sell at their audience – they co-create with them. From skincare brands embracing mixed-brand content to companies inviting creators into the strategy room, the path forward is participatory.

• Scale Without Losing Soul: From The Inkey List’s £100M+ brand honesty to Beekman 1802’s gamified kindness, the most loved brands lead with how they do things, not just what they sell. Culture isn't the garnish. It's the growth engine.

• Trade Vanity For Substance: Forget follower counts. Nanos & micros are winning: because they educate, convert, and care more. Real fans > rented reach. Brands like REFY, Never Fully Dressed, and Symprove are proving that depth leads to scale, when building trust.

• Make Your Tactics Transparent: Today’s marketers are done with vague playbooks. The best ones don’t just share philosophy – they share the numbers. Budgets, CAC, conversion rates, channel tests. It’s what the industry needs; a space for open, actionable learning.

Whether you’ve listened to one episode or all 100, this one marks a turning point.

Because the brands that will thrive in the next 10 years aren’t chasing trends. They’re building for Advocacy.

Press play. Learn from the best. Build what lasts.

Chapters

00:00 Kicking Off With A Vocal Warm-Up

01:10 What Brand Advocacy Really Means

02:26 Celebrating 100 Episodes of the Podcast

04:23 What 100 Episodes Taught Us

08:32 Why Tactical Marketing Matters

11:11 What Surprised Us

15:27 What’s Next & Why Feedback Fuels It

16:31 Episodes Worth Repeating

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Connect with Paul & Verity:

On Paul’s LinkedIn

On Verity’s LinkedIn

Why do polished brands stall, while real ones build Advocacy?

Because today’s consumers don’t want perfection. They want proof.

This week, Erica Cocilova (Chief Executive Officer @ Ethique Beauty) joins Verity in New York to unpack why substance, imperfection, and product obsession are the future of brand building. From rebrands & B Corp audits to salon takeovers that win over skeptics, Erica’s approach proves brand trust isn’t bought – it’s built.

Solid product, transparent leadership, and customer service that actually puts you in contact with the CEO? They’re the building blocks to scaling with integrity.

Rethink what brand love looks like, as you learn…

• How To Build Advocacy Through Service, Beyond Storytelling: Every customer DM, email, and piece of outreach gets a reply; and it’s personal. Real care builds real loyalty. It’s about accountability, not automation, when you build Advocacy this way.

• Ways To Turn IRL Conversations Into Scalable Content: From salon takeovers to consumer-led debates on hair washing habits, Erica shares how small, real-world moments are fuelling content that converts – and creating better educated, enthusiastic Advocates in the process.

• How To Audit Your Brand’s True Impact: Erica’s first move at Ethique was to strip back 20+ sustainability claims and anchor the brand to one: eliminating plastic. Learn how to run an impact audit that narrows focus, sharpens storytelling, and guides strategy.

• Advice For Taking Bold, Human Decisions In Public: Erica and her team didn’t hide behind the rebrand, they fronted it. Blogs, open Slack huddles; even customer support tickets answered by the CFO. Transparency isn’t a ‘for the sake of it’ tactic for Ethique, but is part of the team’s culture.

• Why Bridging Purpose & Product Should Be Seamless: Ethique’s haircare bars aren’t sustainable in spite of their format – they’re better because of it. Function & mission shouldn’t compete. They should compound.

This is what it sounds like when a brand listens, adapts, and leads without losing its soul.

Chapters

00:00 Turning Skeptics into Believers

03:30 Branding at the Crossroads of Sustainability & Efficacy

08:40 What It Takes to Become a B Corp

12:34 Staying Real with Brand Purpose

14:36 Building a Community That Advocates

18:42 Starting Real Conversations with Consumers

20:41 Why Inclusive Events Build Stronger Communities

23:39 Authentic Engagement Starts with Listening

24:36 How Brand Advocates Are Made

25:56 Why First Impressions Still Matter

27:12 Shifting the Consumer Mindset

28:34 What Legacy Brands Got Right

29:45 Direct-to-Consumer: What the Data Shows

32:52 Moving Past Fear to Innovate

36:14 Building Culture Through Transparency

37:26 Rebranding to Be Understood

39:36 Helping Consumers Choose Simply

41:53 Why Scalp Care Deserves the Spotlight

42:22 Getting the Brand Message Right

43:47 Advocacy Is Built on Connection

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Erica:

Via her team @ Ethique

Via Ethique’s Instagram