Brent has decades of ministry experience—and a unique journey that includes a few years in the NFL. In this conversation, he shares wisdom every Next Gen leader and youth pastor can benefit from: how to stop the comparison game fueled by social media, what he learned from over-ambition and zeal, and how to embrace long-term faithfulness in ministry.

Whether you’re new to ministry or decades in, Brent’s insight will encourage and challenge you.

✨ Topics we cover:

• Resisting comparison in ministry

• Lessons from mistakes and overzealous seasons

• Practical encouragement for Next Gen leaders

• Staying faithful for the long haul

Beyond the Numbers | Episode 9

What if you could hop in a DeLorean and give advice to your younger self in ministry? 🚗⚡️

In this episode of Beyond the Numbers, I reflect on the biggest lessons I wish I knew earlier. Ministry isn’t about chasing numbers — it’s about pursuing health:

in our souls, our families, our teams, and our churches.In this episode you’ll hear:

• The advice I’d give my younger self in ministry

• How performance-driven leadership sacrifices presence

• Why comparison robs us of shepherding well

• What it looks like to take Spirit-led risks instead of playing it safe

This conversation is for leaders who are tired, worn out, or ready to build healthier rhythms in ministry.

Question for you: If you could go back, what’s one thing you’d tell your younger self in ministry or leadership? Drop it in the comments — I’d love to hear.⸻

🔔 Subscribe for more conversations on healthy ministry:https://linktr.ee/beyondthenumberpc⸻#MinistryLeadership #YouthPastor #HealthyChurch #NextGenMinistry #BeyondTheNumbersPodcast

Ep 2. When Church Feels Like a Corporation | From Hurting Staff Culture to Healing Leadership

What happens when ministry starts to feel more like climbing the corporate ladder than following Jesus?

In this episode of Beyond the Numbers, we dive deep into the painful reality of toxic church staff culture—where metrics matter more than people, overwork is normalized, and staff are burned out, micromanaged, or just surviving.

We’ll explore:

• The difference between professional excellence and corporate coldness

• How branding, hustle, and inaccessibility can replace spiritual health

• What a healing, healthy leadership culture can actually look like

• Practical steps for pastors, staff, and congregants to shift the atmosphere

If you've ever felt unseen, overworked, or unsure whether what you're experiencing is "normal," this episode will bring both clarity and hope.

👉 Follow the conversation on Instagram: @beyondthenumberspodcast