A discussion the Cardinals and a chilly Hot Stove eventually ignites with this completely unreleated question: How far into your list of the best players in the history of Major League Baseball do you get before mentioning Rickey Henderson?

He's the all-time leader in runs, he's the greatest leadoff hitter in the game's history, and he almost lapped everyone but Lou Brock when it comes to career stolen bases.

The name of the game is scoring runs, and few (if any) did it better than Henderson.

That's part of the discussion with Matt Snyder, CBS sports writer and author of the new book, "The Leadoff Man: The history of, the evolution of, and fun with the greatest catalyst in sports." (The book is available here.) In his book, Snyder chronicles the changing nature of the leadoff spot, from the speedy contact hitters of yore to the bashers and mashers of the modern game, from the tradition of putting infielder there regardless of their ability to get on base to the analytics of prioritizing the most at-bats for the player who makes the fewest outs. Henderson leads the way with a style of play that was both ahead of his peers and ahead of its time.

At about the 23-minute mark, the conversation speeds from leading men to discussing the current offseason and the Cardinals' willingness to trade their leadoff man, Brendan Donovan. The Hot Stove has been sluggish, even stagnant. And that prompts an impromptu suggestion for how to spur deals during the winter meetings with tools already present in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement. No cap needed.

Although talk about a cap is going to dominate the next 11 months, and that is where the podcast hurries toward its conclusion by describing how it's not the tycoon-like Dodgers that signal the lack of competitive balance and economic concerns about the game. The Cardinals could be the canary.

To which, Snyder flips the question: How deep into a list of the most recognizable baseball teams does one get before naming the Cardinals?

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In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

There should be ballads written about Willson Contreras' brief time with the Cardinals.

From his arrival as the All-Star eager for the challenge of following Yadier Molina, to that weird week when he took fly balls in left field and stopped catching, to the injuries and fractures and ultimately his move to first base, out from behind home plate without skipping a beat at the plate. Contreras brought both joy and fury to the Cardinals' lineup and clubhouse, and at some point his absence will be felt by the teammates who remain.

But he won't be a alone.

In a brand new Best Podcast in Baseball, recorded on Christmas Eve, Post-Dispatch editor Nathan Mills and baseball writer Derrick Goold discuss the Cardinals' counterintuitive shopping list for the holidays and what is missing from it and possibly from the clubhouse during his reboot of an organization. The Cardinals traded a starter (Sonny Gray) only to sign a starter (Dustin May) a few weeks later; they traded a right-handed bat from the middle of the order (Contreras) only to suggest a few hours later that they would now look for a right-handed bat to add to the roster. The Cardinals are swapping All-Stars for pitching depth and then looking to replace those veterans with players on shorter-term deals or with more control and less cost.

What's missing from those moves is the leadership and experience that the Cardinals have long championed as part of their continuity, as part of their identity as a club. And more trades ahead could mean the departure of Brendan Donovan, who personifies the way the Cardinals like to play and be in the clubhouse; JoJo Romreo, the seasoned reliever in the bullpen; and Nolan Arenado, the future Hall of Famer and Gold Glove-cornerstone at third.

Mills and Goold discuss what happens when a young group of players isn't inheriting expectations but tasked with trying to grow them.

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In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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As the Cardinals have retreated from annual October appearances they have also faded from the national spotlight. They haven't been historically bad. They haven't been as good as their recent history. Jordan Shusterman, senior writer at Yahoo! Sports and host of Baseball Bar-B-Cast, begins a converation on a brand new Best Podcast in Baseball there: Their absence from the national conversation and what will get them back.

The answer, of course, is identifying what current players must be a part of the next contending core.

That drives this new episode of the long-running Cardinals podcast.

When Shusterman joined BPIB and host Derrick Goold for this recording, he entered his name as "#1 Jimmy Crooks Fan," and that fondness for the Cardinals' left-handed hitting catching prospect came up as the two baseball writers tracked the list of teams that have missed the postseason in the same years as the Cardinals. One of those teams -- the San Francisco Giants -- is not only the subject of a forthcoming article by Shusterman but also one of the teams interested in the Cardinals' Brendan Donovan and also a team that shares a standout trait with the Cardinals.

Both clubs featured Hall of Fame caliber catchers as their cornerstones and have faded in the years since Buster Posey and Yadier Molina retired.

The podcast also includes a discussion on sleeper picks for the future core and how lefty Liam Doyle, the Cardinals' first-round pick in the recent draft, could wake up the ballpark with his debut and personality, if the performance is there to match. He's compared to a closer, just at the start of the game. Plus, did Cardinals' fatigue contribute to the Cardinals' drift out of the national headlines?

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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Back from Orlando, Florida, and the annual Winter Meetings and into the chill of St. Louis, Post-Dispatch baseball writer Derrick Goold shares with editor Nathan Mills what he learned about the Cardinals stoking the hot stove for a busy few weeks heading toward the holidays. The Cardinals gave a glimpse into their enhanced scouting staff and expanded view of the marketplace as well as revealed how they may look to add the same roles they've been looking to trade and what traits they're seeking in the pitchers they continue to collect. The Brendan Donovan market is so strong that other teams are wondering what they can get for their infielders. The Willson Contreras market is starting to take shape, but will it matter if he won't accept a trade? And the Nolan Arenado market is going to be slower to develop.

All of that, plus Mills sternly rebukes Goold's suggestion that the Dodgers go ahead and get it over and just trade for Mr. and Mrs. Met already and complete the Edwin Diaz trumpet-blaring entry into the ninth inning.

There is also an unexpected power ranking of mascots.

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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There is no bumper sticker, no buzzy campaign slogan that captures the challenge facing Major League Baseball and its 30 clubs as economic disparity grows and the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement arrives.

A complex issue requires a complex solution.

Or does it?

A brief conversation about the Cardinals' spending strategy and past history with free agency, based on research done for The Write Fielder newsletter, spirals into a much larger debate between Best Podcast in Baseball host Derrick Goold and guest Kevin Wheeler, of KMOX/104.1 FM. After detailing how the Cardinals got into their current predicament, the questions that follow are two-fold: Do the Cardinals need to change their approach to free agency to return to contention, and does MLB need to change its economic structure for the Cardinals to have a new approach to free agency.

The debate ignites from there.

Wheeler makes a compelling case for how the Cardinals needed to "swim in deeper waters" for free agency and a more conservative approach caught up with them. He adds that a team now focused on development needs to produce its own stars. Goold counters by wondering what World Series contenders have developed their star and not had to outfit the roster with free-agent moves to complete the championship-caliber roster. The Yankees may have Aaron Judge, and they used prospects to trade for Juan Soto once, but they also signed Gerrit Cole. The Kansas City Royals have a homegrown, bona fide star in Bobby Witt Jr. But what's next?

That's where the economics of the game enter the conversation and Wheeler's stance that the "big boys" need to play ball for the betterment of the game, and if that means taking less or receiving a smaller cut to spur and require the spending of the smaller markets so be it. Goold makes a suggestion for pulling that off that Wheeler contends would be difficult to sell to fans who what the tangible bumper sticker, not the boring details of how it gets done.

Eventually they agree on one.

It's the TV deal.

Wheeler's arguments that hinge on a comparison to the NBA and its salary cap format require there to be a much larger national TV deal, one closer to what the NBA has. And that is the crux of this. Once that's in place then negotiations about a salarly floor, shared revenue, and an international draft to better balance talent coming from abroad are all more tangible because the largest issue -- the growing gulch between teams -- has been bridged.

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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From the start of the offseason and the beginning for a new front officer leader, the Cardinals have signaled their priority this winter is to accumulate talent that will help them contend in the future.

They began that process by trading Sonny Gray and $20 million to the Boston Red Sox for a pair of pitching prospects, Richard Fitts and Brandon Clarke, and now the Cardinals' pursuit continues with the arrival of MLB's biggest gathering of the Hot Stove season. The Winter Meetings are coming.

To discuss the Cardinals' to-do list for the Winter Meetings, KMOX/104.1 FM's Kevin Wheeler rejoins the Best Podcast in Baseball. He and BPIB host Derrick Goold discuss the Cardinals' search to trade Nolan Arenado and what happens if another winter passes without a deal; which of the players nearing free agency, such as Brendan Donovan and JoJo Romero, will help the Cardinals achieve their goal of accumulating young talent; and what does a contract extension look like for manager Oli Marmol.

The significant National Baseball Hall of Fame vote set for Dec. 7 is also discussed.

This is the first of two episodes because what started as a short conversation spilled into a heated debate about, oh, just the future economic structure of baseball. Look for that bonus BPIB shortly.

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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Two years after the Cardinals signed Sonny Gray as a free agent to headline their pitching, pitching, pitching offseason, the veteran right-handed waived his no-trade clause and renogiated his deal to allow a trade to Boston and underscore the Cardinals' new direction.

Pivoting, pivoting, pivoting.

In a brand new Best Podcast in Baseball, baseball writer Derrick Goold and editor Nathan Mills discuss the fallout from the Sonny Gray trade. They explore the next group of Cardinals likely to be traded with Mills giving a rundown of the left-handed batters and one left-handed pitcher that are generating interest from other teams and what players would be wisest to trade. The $20 million sent with Gray to the Red Sox in exchanage for two young talents, starters Brandon Clarke and Richard Fitts, is a sign of what the Cardinals are willing to pay for younger, cost-controlled talent. So what does that say about the Cardinals' willingness to cover millions of Nolan Arenado's contract to spur a trade of another All-Star?

The discussion arrives at a juncture for the Cardinals.

For years, the club and its fans have been defined by an urgency about what the game today or the move today did to help them win the next World Series. Now, the question seems to have shifted to what the move did today to help them win their next World Series -- in the future, whenever that is. During his press conference following the Gray trade, Chaim Bloom said the urgency fans expect and the long-term view the Cardinals have adopted can coexist, and he added that he welcomes the pressure such urgency puts on their daily decisions, even if the goal is in the distance.

Plus! Questions from chatters and a Thanksgiving thank you to the community of BPIB listerns who have made the podast possible going back to its earliest days of recording in a attic.

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.

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Welcome to the great plains. When next Major League Baseball hosts a World Series it will have been a decade since any of thw 10 teams from the Midwest divisions have reached the Fall Classic. They've rarely had a club get as far as the championship series, and the National League Central hasn't won a game in the best-of-seven NLCS since 2018. Oh, and coming out of the pandemic the small-market teams that dot the NL and American League Central divisions have been rocked by revenue turbulence.

All while the games star free agents gather at the coasts.

With that as the background, Cincinnati Enquirer baseball writer Gordon Wittenmyer suggested to Post-Dispatch baseball writer and BPIB host Derrick Goold that they poll as many executives as possible at the General Manager Meetings to ask: Which team in the NL Central is most likely to be the next team to win a World Series? The answers were revealing -- not just for the task, but also for what executives view as the most likely traits a team needs to win.

The "most resources," came up often as the big-city Cubs received the most votes.

Here is the Post-Dispatch story that came from the poll.

And here is the podcast that expands upon the poll to discuss the factors that got the divisions here, how one or more can escape the bind, and whether Major League Baseball is just going to keep soaring above fly-over country until the economic structure of the game changes. The two baseball writers dissect how the Pirates could augment a talented team with a different payroll formula, how the Brewers may lose their edge, how the Cardinals made regain theirs, how the Reds could make a push to the top, how the Cubs could financially squash the competition, and why they don't.

In the end, one of the writers makes his prediction for the NL Central team that will next win a World Series title.

It's a team that just doesn't exist yet.

In its 13th season as one of the first and most widely heard podcasts on baseball and the Cardinals, the Best Podcast in Baseball has reached a new season-high with 30 episodes. Each episode is sponsored weekly by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StlToday.com, and lead baseball writer Derrick Goold.