“I have a friend who’s a library film composer and produces podcasts, and I was talking to him, I was giving him the kind of same thesis I talked about today. And he’s like, ‘yeah, I get it. But like, I’m the one who’s going to lose the job.’ Cause what he, this very specific, specified job he has [is] of composing kind of anonymous music for podcasts. And he’s successful, he wrote the theme of Serial, and he’s done a lot of big podcasts in New York Times and NPR and, uh, and he’s like, that’s probably the functional music which employed a lot of composers is probably not going to be needed as much.” – Drew Thurlow

This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Opening Ceremony Media and author of Machine Music: How AI is Transforming Music’s Next Act Drew Thurlow as we discuss the surprising musical trend Drew foresees as AI becomes more commonplace, the one lesson he always shares with music students when it comes to the future of AI, and the ripple effects that generated audio content and voice clones have already started to have across the music industry.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Future of AI in Creative Aesthetics

We pick up the conversation as Drew offers his prediction of how AI music, over time, might become as retro and nostalgic as lofi music today. “I have this theory that with all these AI hallucinations that are happening,” he explains, “that’s going to become its own creative aesthetic, and you’re going to start to see the AI vocal models, you know, the early AI vocal models [return].” He shares his observations as a guest lecturer and why he’s optimistic about the next generation’s relationship with AI, and the lesson he always shares with students. “I’d encourage students to have curiosity be your superpower,” he says. “And community is also really, really important. It was really important for me when I was starting out twenty, twenty-five years ago. It’s even more important now, with so much more noise out there and so many more distractions and so much more music and people doing it.”

(0:04:43) - Trends in Music Tech Startups

Drew talks about how the industry is evolving as digital media becomes the norm, and the opportunities for AI to increase revenue. “Streaming growth is slowing down,” he tells us. “You know, we’re running out of subscribers in the West and North America, western Europe and North America, and so labels and rights holders and artists are kind of in the mood to count their pennies.” He notes some of the less obvious ways that AI is increasing revenue, such as black box royalty collections and anti-piracy safeguards, and the versatile uses of generated audio content. “Adaptive audio companies [are] using machine learning and generative AI for health,” he says, “also in the gaming environments, which is a big business, where personalized music can adapt to you and your environment. It kind of reads your environment. So those are...

“And we got a new Beatles song. I can’t believe we’re talking about the Beatles…. But John Lennon recorded a really corrupted vocal before he tragically died, and it was just kind of there because of some stem separation tech that is only possible because of machine learning. They were able to clean up the vocals, fully on board with the John Lennon estate and the remaining Beatles members, and there’s a few others, but this is interesting. It’s just, it’s a new way of engaging with audio that people, fans are showing that they really like.” – Drew Thurlow

This episode’s guest is a former professional musician turned music executive and strategist. He served as Senior Vice President of A&R at Sony Music and has held leadership roles at both Pandora and Warner Music. As a graduate of Brown University with a master’s in Technology and Leadership, he blends creative insight with business acumen. His writing has appeared in Billboard, and he remains a sought-after voice on the intersection of music, tech, and innovation. His first book, “Machine Music: How AI is Transforming Music’s Next Act,” will be published in 2026.

His name is Drew Thurlow, and he’s also a fellow jury member for the International Sound Awards, which is how we met. As someone on the forefront of music and technology, he has a lot of great advice for sound creatives wanting to make their mark – both now and into the future.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Evolution of Music Industry and Taste

Our conversation starts off with Drew’s early memories of sound and his start as a musician. “I was one of those kids,” he recalls, “who just didn’t have idle time without a guitar in my hands, and I didn’t think too much about it. I wasn’t super self-reflective about it, I just kind of like followed my instincts and continued to do that.” He tells us more about his career journey as a music executive and explains how much the business has changed since he first started out. “There’s the whole influencer thing wrapped up in it,” he says, “and the way people, especially Gen Z and younger millennials, fall in love with personalities and artists is different. It’s not necessarily bad, it’s just different.”

(0:12:36) - AI Impact on Music Industry

As the first half of our discussion wraps up, we turn to the question of whether AI might replace human artists, and Drew offers some surprising statistics. “From our best, really good estimates by places like Deezer and Spotify,” he says, “AI-generated music, even though it’s a measurable percentage of all the songs on [digital service providers], is a third of a percent of the royalty pool, and I just want to reiterate that it is a rounding error. Nobody wants this music.” He shares his thoughts on where AI is heading and some of the ways it might help transform the music industry. “On the business side,” he tells us, “there’s a lot of evidence that these fans want to engage with music in cool and interesting ways, and these AI tech tools allow them

“If you’re watching any video on how to get started on content for your business, for public speaking, anything like that, the microphone is always the number one thing, they say. And that should be a cue. It’s not the phone and it’s not a video camera. They say use your phone to get started, but buy a better mic and there’s a reason that this matters so much to people.” – Nikolaj Kloch

This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Thrivr Productions Nikolaj Kloch as we discuss what he’s learned firsthand about sound since becoming a videographer, how AI is reshaping the way we use studio sound effects, and his number one on-site audio rule.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Audio Branding

The second half of our conversation picks up as Nikolaj tells us about some of the lessons he’s had to learn by experience while working with sound, such as the hidden biases that have shaped recording equipment for decades. “Audio hardware and software have been set up for a man’s voice, and I didn’t realize this over the years,” he notes. “I had no idea about that, and there’s a lot of intricacies like that which are just out in the industry that have been left over for a hundred years now, and you don’t think how that ties back to history until you dive into it.” He tells us how he incorporates AI into his workflow and where he sees it taking the future of audio/video editing. “I think that’s going to make incredible videography work,” he explains. “I think it’s going to add another layer that you still need people behind it, I think we always will, but… it’s going to be a great tool for us to have.”

(0:14:05) - The Impact of Quality Audio

As our conversation comes to a close, Nikolaj shares his strategy for demonstrating the value of sound to skeptical clients. “Just showing them the difference between well-planned audio and something that is just basic, sounds bad, filmed with an iPhone that they’re holding to their mouth and things like that,” he says. “If you show them the side-by-side, I think that’s the easiest way to show them that the transformation is there.” He talks about his latest projects and how listeners can get in touch, and tells us what opened his eyes to the power of sound. “If you could sit down and watch a single video that shows the before and after,” he says, “it changed my view on audio entirely, and it’s something that I always have... when I show these budgets to public speakers, conferences or businesses.”

Episode Summary

• The importance of choosing – and properly setting up – the right audio equipment,
• How sound empowers everything from shaping a narrative to capturing brand synergy.

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