“If you're going to be doing a commercial, for example, for BMW, where people are spending a lot of money on a Seven Series and it's a luxury car, but then you hear the TV ad or the radio ad or wherever you're listening, and that sound isn't recorded at the highest quality. Like, your logical mind might not pick it up, but if it sounds a little tinny or it's too much of an echo, you pick that up, and that really does build into the overall feeling of the brand in terms of quality. There was an interesting example with Nissan. They launched one of the first electric vehicles a long time ago, and when they put it out into the market, they found that people felt that maybe it was a little flimsy, it didn't feel quite right, like, well made. So obviously they went in to fix their upholstery, and they started making things a little more high quality, and consumers are still saying, ‘I don't know what it is, there's something about this, it just doesn't feel like a quality vehicle.’ And what they did was they changed the audio. Through the speakers in the car, when you start it up, it will make a fake sound of the car starting up. And, all of a sudden, people are like, ‘ah, now it feels like a car.’” – Darren Borrino

This week’s guest is an art director at heart and an ECD-level creative with over twenty years experience, working all across the globe. He’s led teams at some of the world’s top agencies, such as TBWA, DDB, and Saatchi & Saatchi, and has won multiple awards for his work. He launched Inkfish, a boutique agency in New York that helps smaller challenger brands take on the big guys with sharper strategy, more disruptive creative, and budgets that go into the work, not overheads. He’s endlessly curious about what persuades the human mind, loves ideas that actually land, and believes that the best work comes from collaboration and clarity, as well as a healthy sense of humor.

His name is Darren Borrino, and in this episode, we’ll be discussing how companies can shake things up using sound, the difference between clever and persuasive, and how to stay relevant in a changing ad world – especially in the age of AI. Stay tuned for a Masterclass in being different!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Advertising

We start off our discussion with Darren’s childhood impressions of sound, which include the Universal audio logo when he and his dad used to watch movies. “You'd made it home, you'd finished everything you wanted to do,” he says, “and you could sort of relax with a little bit of popcorn and maybe watch a movie and just take it easy. So that was probably the first time.” Our discussion turns to audio branding in the age of social media, and just how quickly things move today – especially audience attention. “People switch off very quickly,” Darren explains. “So you need to make sure you have a brand that has the right qualities, and then you match that with the right voice to bring that to...

“The brief was ‘we want to sell some more train tickets to Germany, where you can go to Berlin for a techno party, you can go to Hamburg for the opera, have a famous opera in Hamburg, or you can go to Munich for the beer festival.’ And we made this audio journey with sound, and you definitely can hear, ah, now we’re in Berlin, it’s the opera, and now we go to Munich. So yeah, we can play with that. And the client just also loved the idea. It takes two to tango, as you say, the client also needs to value and understand if you want the effect of this. You need to work with this in an ambitious and professional way.” – Karsten Kjems

This episode is the second half of my conversation with audio branding specialist and founder and CEO of Sonic Minds Karsten Kjems, as we talk about the surprising value of silence in sound design, why familiarity doesn’t always breed contempt when it comes to sonic logos, and what it means to be a musician in a world where both instruments and vocals can come from a laptop.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound Design

As the second half of our conversation starts, Karsten points out how effective sound design isn’t always intuitive, and that less is sometimes more. “I’ve played some gigs, sometimes for a reception,” he says, “and people were just talking and talking, and they didn’t listen to the music at all. But then suddenly if we start to play really soft, then people go, ‘oh, I think the band is playing.’” He adds that sonic interfaces today are, in some ways, reminiscent of the early days of web design. “In the old days, they had flashes and everything moving,” he recalls. “You know, now we just go back to ‘give me a simple burger menu,’ ‘click contact,’ or whatever. User usability is also very important.”

(0:06:41) - The Evolution of Sound Design

Our discussion turns to audio marketing, and Karsten points out how much of effective sonic branding depends on the demographics. “There has actually been a study for that, that shows that we create our musical preference, I think, when it’s between we are 17 and 21,” he says. “We’re about to get the first boyfriend or girlfriend, moving away from home, these really high peak moments in our lives.” We talk about AI in sound, and the direction he sees it taking in the industry. “It’s just like when the sampler came out,” he recalls. “’What should drummers do?’ And now the drummer plays on top of samplers, so every drummer has a sampler or a drum machine next to him, so he uses it as a tool.”

(0:20:22) - Quality Sound Design

As our conversation comes to a close, we talk more about the role of shifting demographics in sound design and how they impact not just relatability but the user’s experience. “If you’re having hearing loss or having, you know, difficult hearing,” Karsten notes, “then you don’t want products that really annoy you. You want to be able to understand them.” He shares some of his...

“If you can see that your product is selling better with better sounds, and it gets better reviews Actually, I saw a car review that scored the car better just because the sounds were better. He didn’t talk about how fast it could go, how fast it could brake or how many airbags, he talked about the user experience. A car today is a driving iPad on wheels. So, all these sounds here, I got so stressed from these beeps and boops, suddenly it was too close to the edge, or too close to that... sometimes there wasn’t even a thing, and it just starts to, what was that? Was a fly running through the camera? What was it? So, I think it’s so important that we also choose brands and products with our ears as well with our eyes, and also with our wallets.” – Karsten Kjems

This episode’s guest was raised in a musical home with a studio in the basement. He began drumming professionally at 23, and his passion for sound design and early use of digital audio tools like ProTracker on the Amiga shaped his approach to music and technology. While working at a branding agency, he noticed companies struggling to define their sonic identity, leading him to launch one of the first strategic audio branding agencies, Sonic Minds, in 2004. Today, he’s a recognized expert in the field, frequently speaking and teaching about sound design.

His name is Karsten Kjems, and you’ll want to hear more about his perspective on brand sounds, why he believes audio branding to be so important, and what sets good and bad sound apart. If you’re still on the fence about audio branding for your own company, or if you’re struggling to explain why it’s important to your clients, you should definitely check out this conversation.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Branding

As we start things off, Karsten shares his early memories of sound, and how growing up with ADHD in a musical family shaped his formative years. “I was brought up in a family where my father was a drummer,” Karsten recalls, “so I’ve always been around musicians and music and the first time I really discovered that I had this almost perfect pitch was when I went to music school.” He explains how a surprising discovery at a concert led to his career in marketing and audio branding, and the seismic shift that the streaming era – and particularly the rise of YouTube – represented for the industry. “Suddenly brands and companies need to communicate in these spheres,” he tells us. “How did they do that? How did they choose music? How should they buy music? So it’s a whole new game, from only being on TV and radio to being on all the time, to keep… producing content all the time.”

(0:12:18) - Designing Meaningful Audio Branding Experiences

Our conversation turns to UX and branding through sound design, and Karsten points out how ubiquitous sound interfaces have become these days. “A headset, a modern headset, for whatever company, it can have up to around 15 different sounds,” he...