Episode Summary:

In this episode of The Alternative Exit, I’m joined by Daniel Goldstein an experienced executive, former CEO of Foliance, and a dedicated advocate for employee ownership. With a career spanning corporate governance, ESOP advocacy, and organizational transformation, Daniel brings a deeply thoughtful and practical lens to how businesses can embrace employee ownership and thrive.

We dive into what happens after the ownership transition — how to ensure long-term sustainability, build buy-in, and drive culture within employee-owned companies. From turning a balance sheet crisis into a holding company opportunity, to creating tangible tools like a "license to act" card that foster true ownership mindset, Daniel shares a masterclass in smart leadership, accountability, and systems that scale.

Key Takeaways:

• The biggest fear in employee ownership isn’t the model — it’s employees undervaluing what they have
• Why shared services and ESOP holding companies simplify transition and scale
• The difference between ownership and entitlement (and how education bridges the gap)
• Why culture change starts with leadership modeling, not employee handbooks
• The “80,000 hours” mindset that makes work about more than just financial rewards
• How governance done well empowers decision-making and accountability at every level
• Why focusing on what’s working — through appreciative inquiry — is more powerful than postmortems
• What’s next in employee ownership: EOTs, sustainability modeling, and cultural storytelling

About Daniel Goldstein:

Daniel Goldstein is the former President and CEO of Foliance, a 100% employee-owned holding company based in Iowa. During his tenure, he transformed the organization through innovative acquisitions, thoughtful governance, and deep cultural investment. Today, he serves as an executive fellow at the Rutgers Institute of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing, and continues to support the EO community as a speaker, board member, and advisor.

Connect with Daniel Goldstein:
Email: goesopllc@gmail.com
LinkedIn: Daniel Goldstein

Connect with Andy Farquharson:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/andyfarq
Website - https://abettermonday.me/
Email - andy@bettermonday.me

Episode Summary:

For today's episode of The Alternative Exit Podcast, Andy Farquharson is joined by Deb Oxley, a prominent advocate for employee ownership and the Chair, NED, Mentor, and Specialist in Employee Ownership.

She shared stories of how she influenced companies about employee ownership, the need to influence influencers like accountants and lawyers about its importance, and its impacts. They also talked about the 'whoosh' effect on employee ownership and the concept of 'financial freedom day.' Listen to learn more about these. Enjoy the show!

Key Takeaways:

• How Deb found her way into the employee ownership space
• Big challenges to sharing awareness about employee ownership with companies
• The pre-transition space of accountants and lawyers
• What is the ownership 'whoosh' effect?
• The financial freedom day
• Employee ownership is a change of ownership, not leadership.
• Importance of financial literacy in employee ownership
• Giving a level of personal accountability to employees
• What is the biggest barrier to growth for employee ownership?

About Deb Oxley

Deb Oxley is a prominent advocate for employee ownership. She had a tenure from 2015 to 2022 as the CEO of the Employee Ownership Association in the UK. During her time, she had a significant impact on the organization, growing its reach and impact. Deb was awarded an OBE in 2019 for her services to employee ownership and social enterprise.

Connect with Deb Oxley

• X: @DebOxley
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deboxley
• Email: deb@oxleyworks.co.uk
• Resources: https://employeeownership.co.uk/

Connect with Andy Farquharson:

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/andyfarq
• Website - https://abettermonday.me/
• Email - andy@bettermonday.me

Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Alternative Exit Podcast, Andy Farquharson interviews Chris Mackin, a luminary in employee ownership who has spent four and a half decades in this field. He is the founder and president of Ownership Associates, a consulting firm based in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Today, he talks about the history of employee ownership in the U.S., the introduction of employee relationships, and the idea of employee ownership in the legal and financial aspects. Listen and enjoy the show!

Key Takeaways:
- The history of employee ownership in the United States
- Introduction of employee relationship
- The misconceptions about employee ownership: It is not socialism
- The vision of an industrial republic
- Importance of changing organizational culture and employee engagement as part of the transition
- Creating democratic capitalism
- ESOP vs EOT
- The biggest challenge to implementing employee-owned structures in companies
- Having future committees in ESOP companies
- The Employee Equity Investment Act

About Chris Mackin
Chris Mackin is the founder and president of Ownership Associates, a consulting firm based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. He is also a fellow at the Rutgers University School of Management and Labor Relations, where he teaches a course on democratic capitalism and contributes to the Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing. He plays an active role in shaping policies that govern employee ownership and participates in employee ownership symposiums around the world.

Connect with Chris Mackin
- Website: https://ownershipassociates.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-mackin-3238723/

Connect with Andy Farquharson:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/andyfarq
Website - https://abettermonday.me/
Email - andy@bettermonday.me