Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Olivia and Brian sit down with consultant and author Michael Farmer, who has spent three decades diagnosing the economic pressures inside agencies. Farmer explains why agencies still struggle to measure work, how rework distorts staffing needs, and how digital and social accelerated the long-running pattern of falling fees and rising workloads. He also outlines what AI will mean for both creative and media agencies, including major productivity gains that could compress fees unless leaders reinvest efficiencies into senior talent and reconnect creativity, media and brand strategy.

Michael shares insights from his early consulting work at Ogilvy, his analysis of media agency staffing models and his belief that MMM tools like Mutinex can help clients and agencies better understand where growth is actually coming from. He closes with what is ahead for him as he completes his new book Madison Avenue Media Madness and shifts his focus toward teaching and training.

In News of the Week:

• IPG, Dentsu, and Globant report financial results.
• Publicis publicly challenges Omnicom’s accounting approach.
• Paramount Skydance discloses that Publicis and Interpublic won its business with media sales agreements.

The episode also features a brief mention of Olivia's new subscription PR model offering agencies a weekly hour of senior strategic thinking. For details, email olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Olivia and Brian record in person for the first time with Doug Zanger, founder of Indie Agency News, a growing platform built to help independent agencies increase visibility and confidence. A former radio producer and trade journalist, Doug shares how his background shaped the creation of Indie Agency News, which is now more than 300 members strong. Doug explains why confidence should be every agency’s most important KPI.

Doug explains how the platform supports agencies with tools like First Pass, which helps optimize press, awards, and messaging, and why language rooted in solutions rather than services can change how marketers perceive value. The group also discusses the rise of partnerships among indie shops, how AI fits into Doug’s workflow, and why he says technology should always serve people—not replace them.

In News of the Week:

• S4 Capital reports weak earnings and ongoing client concentration issues.
• Stagwell reports stronger-than-expected results despite confusing organic growth definitions.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Olivia and Brian interview Josh Rosenberg, co-founder and CEO of Day One Agency, the creative shop founded 11 years ago to bridge the gap between earned media and brand storytelling. With offices in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Portland, Day One works with clients including American Express, Chipotle, Nike, Converse, and e.l.f. Beauty.

Josh shares how Day One was built around what he calls “earned creativity”—an approach that pairs editorial thinking with culturally relevant storytelling. He explains why curiosity has become the most essential trait in the age of AI, how the agency’s apprenticeship program helps identify emerging talent, and why Day One created its Learning Fund, a $30,000 internal grant program for employees to pursue continued education.

The group discusses how Day One resists adding a media practice in favor of deeper creative partnerships, how editorial projects like Ask Gen Z and a new Gen Alpha research report inform client work, and why investing in in-house content such as podcasts and newsletters fuels both learning and new business. Josh also details how the agency’s structure—organized around its Shape, Share, and Fuel teams—keeps it nimble and “built for change.”

In News of the Week:

• WPP’s disappointing results and CEO Cindy Rose’s remarks on simplification.
• The continued consolidation of DDB under Omnicom and what it signals about holding-company structure.
• Globant consolidates marketing-related activity under Gut.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Brian interviews Mark Sherman, founder of Media Experts, Canada's largest independent media agency prior to its sale to Interpublic. Mark provides a wide range of perspectives on independent media agencies, how to make the most of selling an agency and how to make the most of buying one, too.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Olivia and Brian interview Paul Venables, founder and chairman of Venables Bell & Partners, the independent San Francisco agency known for its work with Audi, Chipotle, and Intel.

Paul shares how “doing right by people” became both a cultural mantra and a competitive business strategy that’s guided VB&P’s decisions for nearly 25 years of independence. He explains how the team evaluates client fit, and why growth for its own sake is a “false choice.”

The group also explores San Francisco’s creative scene, VB&P’s approach to AI-driven production, and how the agency is training every art director to work fluently with generative tools.

• Stagwell takes a 35% stake in Real Clear Politics and 12 other media sites, raising questions about ad agencies investing in news.
• Havas’ Q3 growth and hints at a potential Dentsu collaboration
• Publicis' Q3 growth.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

This week, Olivia and Brian interview Robin Bonn, founder of Co:definery and host of The Immortal Life of Agencies. Robin advises agency leaders on positioning, growth strategy, and differentiation to help them define what makes their business truly distinct in a changing market.

Robin explains why so many agencies confuse positioning with packaging, how differentiation goes deeper than branding, and what it really means to specialize in today’s post-capability world. Robin discusses why “being different” can’t just be a tagline, how independents can leverage scale through precision, and why culture — not just creativity — determines an agency’s staying power.

We hit on the dangers of sameness, the tension between consolidation and client-centricity, and how artificial intelligence is accelerating long-needed shifts in pricing, productization, and agency business models.

• WPP Media’s North America CEO departs.
• General Motors shifts its marketing org, combining communications and marketing under one leader.
• Omnicom–IPG to consolidate creative agencies and create a conflict agency to manage client overlaps.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and analysis. It’s free and drops every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

Olivia and Brian interview Andrew Graff, CEO of Boston-based independent agency Allen & Gerritsen (A&G). Under Andrew’s leadership, A&G has built a behavioral-science approach to creativity, focused on what drives human decision-making.

Andrew explains why curiosity is essential to leadership, and why he calls himself a “chief executive intern.” He discusses A&G’s collaborative model for independence, its balance between data and behavioral insight, and how hiring talent from psychology, social sciences, and data helps fuel creative thinking.

We hit on why curiosity keeps independents competitive, how culture sustains long-term growth, and what it means to “zag” toward consumer brands while borrowing lessons from tech.

• Havas and Horizon form Horizon Global to achieve international reach.
• Madison and Wall data show independents growing faster than holding companies, perhaps driven by in-housing and selective partnerships.
• Pharma and healthcare reviews surge.

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and industry analysis. It's free and comes out every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.

Welcome to Agency Business.

Olivia and Brian interview Rachel Huff, founder of Victoire & Co. and a leading agency search consultant. Rachel works with CMOs and brand leaders to run agency reviews and has a clear view of what clients actually value when choosing partners.

She explains how brand marketers approach agency search and compensation models, and why many are leaning toward specialist partners rather than 'one-stop-shops'. Rachel also unpacks how AI is showing up in creative scopes of work, how client budgets are shifting, and why clarity and transparency in positioning matter more than ever for agencies.

We hit on the tension between doing more for less, the pitfalls of agencies claiming they can do everything, and what differentiates firms that win reviews. Rachel also shares how client needs vary across sectors, from Fortune 100 companies to nonprofits, and why business problem-solving — not splashy creative alone — is what CMOs demand.

• Publicis’ latest acquisition in Dubai and what it signals about regional growth strategies
• COMvergence data showing Publicis on top in media new business and GroupM on the other end
• Accenture Song’s earnings update, decelerating growth, and a sharper focus on AI

Subscribe to the Agency Business newsletter for episode notes and industry analysis. It's free and comes out every Monday.

Agency Business features agency CEOs and financial decision-makers alongside third party experts including agency pitch consultants. We are always accepting pitches, and are particularly interested in hearing from women and leaders of color.

📬 Pitch a guest or inquire about sponsorships:

📩 Brian at brian@madisonandwall.com

📩 Olivia at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com

Follow Madison and Wall and FusionFront Media on LinkedIn for updates.

📊 The Madison and Wall Podcast – Brian opens up about his latest work — plus crucial economic, financial, and industry trends.

🎬 Screen & Sponsor – Olivia & VaynerMedia's Jessie Holder explore how brands are shaping Hollywood.