80,000 Hours Podcast Podcast Por Rob Luisa and the 80000 Hours team arte de portada

80,000 Hours Podcast

80,000 Hours Podcast

De: Rob Luisa and the 80000 Hours team
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Unusually in-depth conversations about the world's most pressing problems and what you can do to solve them. Subscribe by searching for '80000 Hours' wherever you get podcasts. Hosted by Rob Wiblin and Luisa Rodriguez.All rights reserved
Episodios
  • Why I quit everything to work on a biothreat nobody had heard of | James Smith, Mirror Biology Dialogues Fund

    Why I quit everything to work on a biothreat nobody had heard of | James Smith, Mirror Biology Dialogues Fund
    Jan 13 2026
    When James Smith first heard about mirror bacteria, he was sceptical. But within two weeks, he’d dropped everything to work on it full time, considering it the worst biothreat that he’d seen described. What convinced him?Mirror bacteria would be constructed entirely from molecules that are the mirror images of their naturally occurring counterparts. This seemingly trivial difference creates a fundamental break in the tree of life. For billions of years, the mechanisms underlying immune systems and keeping natural populations of microorganisms in check have evolved to recognise threats by their molecular shape — like a hand fitting into a matching glove.Learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.info/js26Mirror bacteria would upend that assumption, creating two enormous problems:Many critical immune pathways would likely fail to activate, creating risks of fatal infection across many species.Mirror bacteria could have substantial resistance to natural predators: for example, they would be essentially immune to the viruses that currently keep bacteria populations in check. That could help them spread and become irreversibly entrenched across diverse ecosystems.Unlike ordinary pathogens, which are typically species-specific, mirror bacteria’s reversed molecular structure means they could potentially infect humans, livestock, wildlife, and plants simultaneously. The same fundamental problem — reversed molecular structure breaking immune recognition — could affect most immune systems across the tree of life. People, animals, and plants could be infected from any contaminated soil, dust, or species.The discovery of these risks came as a surprise. The December 2024 Science paper that brought international attention to mirror life was coauthored by 38 leading scientists, including two Nobel Prize winners and several who had previously wanted to create mirror organisms.James is now the director of the Mirror Biology Dialogues Fund, which supports conversations among scientists and other experts about how these risks might be addressed. Scientists tracking the field think that mirror bacteria might be feasible in 10–30 years, or possibly sooner. But scientists have already created substantial components of the cellular machinery needed for mirror life. We can regulate precursor technologies to mirror life before they become technically feasible — but only if we act before the research crosses critical thresholds. Once certain capabilities exist, we can’t undo that knowledge.Addressing these risks could actually be very tractable: unlike other technologies where massive potential benefits accompany catastrophic risks, mirror life appears to offer minimal advantages beyond academic interest.Nonetheless, James notes that fewer than 10 people currently work full-time on mirror life risks and governance. This is an extraordinary opportunity for researchers in biosecurity, synthetic biology, immunology, policy, and many other fields to help solve an entirely preventable catastrophe — James even believes the issue is on par with AI safety as a priority for some people, depending on their skill set.The Mirror Biology Dialogues Fund is hiring!Deputy director: https://80k.info/mbdfddOperations lead: https://80k.info/mbdfopsExpression of interest for other roles: https://80k.info/mbdfeoiThis episode was recorded on November 5-6, 2025.Chapters:Cold open (00:00:00)Who's James Smith? (00:00:49)Why is mirror life so dangerous? (00:01:12)Mirror life and the human immune system (00:15:40)Nonhuman animals will also be at risk (00:28:25)Will plants be susceptible to mirror bacteria? (00:34:57)Mirror bacteria's effect on ecosystems (00:39:34)How close are we to making mirror bacteria? (00:52:16)Policies for governing mirror life research (01:06:39)Countermeasures if mirror bacteria are released into the world (01:22:06)Why hasn't mirror life evolved on its own? (01:28:37)Why wouldn't antibodies or antibiotics save us from mirror bacteria? (01:31:52)Will the environment be toxic to mirror life? (01:39:21)Are there too many uncertainties to act now? (01:44:18)The potential benefits of mirror molecules and mirror life (01:46:55)Might we encounter mirror life in space? (01:52:44)Sounding the alarms about mirror life: the backstory (01:54:55)How to get involved (02:02:44)Video and audio editing: Dominic Armstrong, Milo McGuire, Luke Monsour, and Simon MonsourMusic: CORBITCamera operators: Jeremy Chevillotte and Alex MilesCoordination, transcripts, and web: Katy Moore
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    2 h y 10 m
  • #144 Classic episode – Athena Aktipis on why cancer is actually one of the fundamental phenomena in our universe

    #144 Classic episode – Athena Aktipis on why cancer is actually one of the fundamental phenomena in our universe
    Jan 9 2026
    What’s the opposite of cancer? If you answered “cure,” “antidote,” or “antivenom” — you’ve obviously been reading the antonym section at www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/cancer.But today’s guest Athena Aktipis says that the opposite of cancer is us: it's having a functional multicellular body that’s cooperating effectively in order to make that multicellular body function.If, like us, you found her answer far more satisfying than the dictionary, maybe you could consider closing your dozens of merriam-webster.com tabs, and start listening to this podcast instead.Rebroadcast: this episode was originally released in January 2023.Links to learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.link/AA As Athena explains in her book The Cheating Cell, what we see with cancer is a breakdown in each of the foundations of cooperation that allowed multicellularity to arise: Cells will proliferate when they shouldn't. Cells won't die when they should. Cells won't engage in the kind of division of labour that they should. Cells won’t do the jobs that they're supposed to do. Cells will monopolise resources. And cells will trash the environment.When we think about animals in the wild, or even bacteria living inside our cells, we understand that they're facing evolutionary pressures to figure out how they can replicate more; how they can get more resources; and how they can avoid predators — like lions, or antibiotics.We don’t normally think of individual cells as acting as if they have their own interests like this. But cancer cells are actually facing similar kinds of evolutionary pressures within our bodies, with one major difference: they replicate much, much faster.Incredibly, the opportunity for evolution by natural selection to operate just over the course of cancer progression is easily faster than all of the evolutionary time that we have had as humans since Homo sapiens came about.Here’s a quote from Athena:“So you have to shift your thinking to be like: the body is a world with all these different ecosystems in it, and the cells are existing on a time scale where, if we're going to map it onto anything like what we experience, a day is at least 10 years for them, right? So it's a very, very different way of thinking.”You can find compelling examples of cooperation and conflict all over the universe, so Rob and Athena don’t stop with cancer. They also discuss:Cheating within cells themselvesCooperation in human societies as they exist today — and perhaps in the future, between civilisations spread across different planets or starsWhether it’s too out-there to think of humans as engaging in cancerous behaviourWhy elephants get deadly cancers less often than humans, despite having way more cellsWhen a cell should commit suicideThe strategy of deliberately not treating cancer aggressivelySuperhuman cooperationAnd at the end of the episode, they cover Athena’s new book Everything is Fine! How to Thrive in the Apocalypse, including:Staying happy while thinking about the apocalypsePractical steps to prepare for the apocalypseAnd whether a zombie apocalypse is already happening among Tasmanian devilsChapters:Rob's intro (00:00:00)The interview begins (00:02:22)Cooperation (00:06:12)Cancer (00:09:52)How multicellular life survives (00:20:10)Why our anti-contagious-cancer mechanisms are so successful (00:32:34)Why elephants get deadly cancers less often than humans (00:48:50)Life extension (01:02:00)Honour among cancer thieves (01:06:21)When a cell should commit suicide (01:14:00)When the human body deliberately produces tumours (01:19:58)Surprising approaches for managing cancer (01:25:47)Analogies to human cooperation (01:39:32)Applying the "not treating cancer aggressively" strategy to real life (01:55:29)Humanity on Earth, and Earth in the universe (02:01:53)Superhuman cooperation (02:08:51)Cheating within cells (02:15:17)Father's genes vs. mother's genes (02:26:18)Everything is Fine: How to Thrive in the Apocalypse (02:40:13)Do we really live in an era of unusual risk? (02:54:53)Staying happy while thinking about the apocalypse (02:58:50)Overrated worries about the apocalypse (03:13:11)The zombie apocalypse (03:22:35)Producer: Keiran HarrisAudio mastering: Milo McGuireTranscriptions: Katy Moore
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    3 h y 31 m
  • #142 Classic episode – John McWhorter on why the optimal number of languages might be one, and other provocative claims about language

    #142 Classic episode – John McWhorter on why the optimal number of languages might be one, and other provocative claims about language
    Jan 6 2026

    John McWhorter is a linguistics professor at Columbia University specialising in research on creole languages. He's also a content-producing machine, never afraid to give his frank opinion on anything and everything. On top of his academic work, he's written 22 books, produced five online university courses, hosts one and a half podcasts, and now writes a regular New York Times op-ed column.

    Rebroadcast: this episode was originally released in December 2022.

    YouTube video version: https://youtu.be/MEd7TT_nMJE

    Links to learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.link/JM

    We ask him what we think are the most important things everyone ought to know about linguistics, including:

    • Can you communicate faster in some languages than others, or is there some constraint that prevents that?
    • Does learning a second or third language make you smarter or not?
    • Can a language decay and get worse at communicating what people want to say?
    • If children aren't taught a language, how many generations does it take them to invent a fully fledged one of their own?
    • Did Shakespeare write in a foreign language, and if so, should we translate his plays?
    • How much does language really shape the way we think?
    • Are creoles the best languages in the world — languages that ideally we would all speak?
    • What would be the optimal number of languages globally?
    • Does trying to save dying languages do their speakers a favour, or is it more of an imposition?
    • Should we bother to teach foreign languages in UK and US schools?
    • Is it possible to save the important cultural aspects embedded in a dying language without saving the language itself?
    • Will AI models speak a language of their own in the future, one that humans can't understand but which better serves the tradeoffs AI models need to make?

    We’ve also added John’s talk “Why the World Looks the Same in Any Language” to the end of this episode. So stick around after the credits!

    Chapters:

    • Rob's intro (00:00:00)
    • Who's John McWhorter? (00:05:02)
    • Does learning another language make you smarter? (00:05:54)
    • Updating Shakespeare (00:07:52)
    • Should we bother teaching foreign languages in school? (00:12:09)
    • Language loss (00:16:05)
    • The optimal number of languages for humanity (00:27:57)
    • Do we reason about the world using language and words? (00:31:22)
    • Can we communicate meaningful information more quickly in some languages? (00:35:04)
    • Creole languages (00:38:48)
    • AI and the future of language (00:50:45)
    • Should we keep ums and ahs in The 80,000 Hours Podcast? (00:59:10)
    • Why the World Looks the Same in Any Language (01:02:07)

    Producer: Keiran Harris
    Audio mastering: Ben Cordell and Simon Monsour
    Video editing: Ryan Kessler and Simon Monsour
    Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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    1 h y 35 m
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For anyone who's interested in audiobooks, especially non-fiction work, this podcast is perfect. For people used to short-form podcasts, the 2-5 hour range may seem intimidating, but for those used to the length of audiobooks it's great. The length allows the interviewer to ask genuinely interesting questions, with a bit of back-and-forth with the interviewee.

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