64 - Talking Politics & Christian Nationalism with Caleb Campbell

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What if loving your Christian nationalist neighbor is the most political thing you’ll do this year?

Can a stadium memorial where “forgive your enemies” and “hate your enemies” share the same stage?"

Today we invited pastor and author Caleb Campbell (Disarming Leviathan) to help us name the powers discipling our age—and offer a way back to love with a spine.

We trace Caleb’s decade pastoring in Phoenix as culture-war catechisms flood the church, Turning Point rallies fill calendars, and neighbors learn to see each other as threats. Caleb names Leviathan—the biblical image of predatory, chaos power that dresses itself in righteousness—and shows how anxiety, not policy alone, is the engine of Christian nationalism.

We also talk about grief and honesty around public tragedy, why militarizing the Lord’s Prayer profanes God’s name, and how to practice discernment without getting trapped in bad‑faith quarrels.

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