#173 Writing Flawed Female Characters in Noir Fiction with Barbara DeMarco-Barrett

After years of writing literary fiction, Barbara DeMarco-Barrett, author of Pool Fishing, saw her work shift when she turned to noir. Estelle Erasmus chats with Barbara about the genre shift that reignited her fiction and led to publication. Barbara shares how stepping into noir forced her to embrace plot, tension, and consequence, without sacrificing voice or depth. They touch on the big craft questions behind the book, including how place shapes story, how themes emerge across a collection, and how to build characters readers empathize with, even when those characters make bad choices. Barbara also reflects on the early days of Writers on Writing and how it grew from a radio show into a long-running podcast for writers. In this episode: The moment Barbara realized literary fiction wasn't enough [3:02] Why noir demands action, risk, and irreversible consequences [4:17] Why genre shifts can unlock new creative momentum [5:06] How place and atmosphere shape what happens on the page [8:20] Ways themes naturally emerge across a story collection [9:11] The accidental water motif that ties Pool Fishing together [10:54] Making flawed characters compelling [16:35] A practical approach to staying accountable while drafting a book [22:52] How Writers on Writing began as radio and became a podcast pioneer [26:18] Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iOL5c3VDMCI About Barbara: Barbara DeMarco-Barrett's recent debut collection of short stories, Pool Fishing, was published by Kelp Books. Her short story, "Rowboat," included in the book, was nominated for a Pushcart Prize. She has also published Palm Springs Noir (Akashic Books) and Pen on Fire: A Busy Woman's Guide to Igniting the Writer Within, a Los Angeles Times bestseller and winner of the American Society of Journalists and Authors best book award. "Crazy for You," published in Orange County Noir (Akashic), was included in USA Noir: Best of the Akashic Noir Series. Her short fiction has been published in Coolest American Stories, CrimeReads, Oyez Review, Literary Hatchet, Rock and a Hard Place, Broad River Review, and Dark City Crime & Mystery Magazine. Essays and articles have seen print in Inlandia, The Antarctica Review, The Ocotillo Review, The Writer, Los Angeles Review of Books, Poets & Writers,, San Jose Mercury News, and the Los Angeles Times. She teaches at various places, including Saddleback College and Gotham Writers Workshop, and has taught at UC-Irvine where she received a Distinguished Instructor Award. She is creator, executive producer, and host of the award-winning podcast, Writers on Writing. www.penonfire.com. Connect with Barbara: Website: https://penonfire.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barbarademarcobarrett/?hl=en Pool Fishing: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/205217838-pool-fishing Writers on Writing: https://open.spotify.com/show/3xsgsETgPlrGnmI9BmjC1I?si=62ce96ccabd14a35 Get More from Estelle Upcoming Webinar with Writer's Digest: Amplifying the Echo Effect in Memoir and Essays, February 26th, 1:00-2:30 pm ET If you want to understand how patterns, callbacks, and emotional echoes can deepen your work, join me for this brand new interactive craft webinar. Learn more and register here. 🎓 Learn with Estelle: • NYU Zoom Course: Writing About Your Life Through Memoir & Essays — Discover how to beat writer's block, shape a powerful narrative, pitch editors, and walk away with a ready-to-publish essay or memoir pages. Find out more information and register here. Private Small-Group Memoir Class — January and March are sold out. Next 6-week session begins May 2026. Email me at [e-mail] for details and to get on the waiting list. 📰 Read & Subscribe • Substack:— NEW POST: How to Pitch Slate: Advice, Ideas and Examples on How to Write Articles and Essays from NYU My Editor-on-Call Event • Newsletter: Sign up at estelleserasmus.com for show updates + a free Pitching Guide. 🎤 Watch: Estelle's TEDx Talk — How to Get Noticed in Your Writing and Beyond 📘 Book: Writing That Gets Noticed — named a Poets & Writers "Best Book for Writers." Audiobook here 🎧 Listen: Freelance Writing Direct Podcast — 2025 Podcast of the Year (American Writing Awards) About Estelle Estelle Erasmus is an award-winning journalist,TEDx Speaker, author of Writing That Gets Noticed, and host of Freelance Writing Direct. A contributing editor for Writer's Digest and adjunct professor at NYU, her work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, WIRED, PBS/Next Avenue, The Independent, and AARP The Magazine. She has served as editor-in-chief of five national magazines. Follow Estelle: • Instagram: @EstelleSErasmus • TikTok: @EstelleSErasmus • Twitter: @EstelleSErasmus • BlueSky: @estelleserasmus.bsky.social