157 | Build People, Then Products with Phil Franks

Designer-turned-entrepreneur Phil Franks (Nucleus Creative; Owl & Key) joins Rodric to unpack what he learned building for brands like Hilton, Panda Express, and Victoria’s Secret—and why the real unlock in any business is people, process, and presence.

Phil shares how becoming a dad pushed him to leave agency life, the SOP mindset he now “lives and dies by,” and why modular construction has him excited to build tighter, faster, and smarter.

They trade notes on coaching, niche focus, CAC-thinking for builders, and the difference between hiring as an expense vs. an investment.

If you’re stuck doing $600/hour tasks for $0/hour outcomes, this one is a breath of fresh air—and a nudge to get out of your own way.

Timestamps & Topics

• 00:00 – 02:15 Meet Phil: agency roots, early web, learning under the hood of big brands.
• 03:05 – 07:30 Fatherhood reframe → leaving the agency; building a family “office” with two companies.
• 09:04 – 12:30 What big brands taught him: SOPs, repeatability, and “people architecture.”
• 13:50 – 16:00 Rodric’s $600/hr test and the shift from building houses to building people.
• 18:22 – 21:10 Why modular/panelized is compelling; finding the right GC to protect margin.
• 21:46 – 24:25 Listener Q: “What are you chasing?” Phil on alignment through seasons.
• 25:05 – 29:50 Coaching, circles, and picking clients (and when to walk away).
• 30:57 – 37:45 Ground zero → $65k MRR: brand, offers, and niche clarity for builders.
• 36:47 – 40:40 Niche > noise; using CAC to think like a modern builder.

Highlights

• SOPs aren’t paperwork—they’re profit protection and peace of mind.
• Build “people architecture” before you scale product or projects.
• Delegate anything below your target hourly value; stay in your $600/hr lane.
• Modular/panelized can compress timelines—if your on-site team truly understands the system.
• Niche wins: speak to one bleeding-neck problem for one person.
• Think CAC, not “free referrals”—paying great partners can be your best deal flow.

Pull Quotes

• “Things have to flow. People have to know how they work, and they have to be repeatable.” —Phil
• “You’ve got to go from building houses to building people.” —Rodric
• “Niche feels counterintuitive—until it works.” —Phil & Rodric
• “What are you chasing? For me, it’s alignment in this season.” —Phil

Guest

Phil Franks — Co-founder, Nucleus Creative (brand/digital) & Owl & Key (leadership & life design). Find him at nucleuscreative.co and owlandkey.co.

Links/Resources

📱Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phil_franks/?hl=en

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philfranks/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/nucleuscreativeco/

📘Rodric’s book: