It's the return of Carl Newman of The New Pornographers! We were just kids back in 2015 when I first interviewed Newman and we discussed his love of the 10cc song "Dreadlock Holiday." We return to that song in this episode, and we span the entirety of Newman's songwriting process, including a great discussion of why writing badly is so important and why gibberish is a great way to jump start the process.

The New Pornographers' latest album is The Former Site Of on Merge Records.

"I'm a jacket man," King Tuff (aka Kyle Thomas) told me as we discussed why feeling good is important to the songwriting process. I had mentioned a writer who told me that he must wear a winter coat when he writes--even during the Washington, DC summers where he lives. This is not a complicated idea: if we're in a good headspace, we're more likely to be productive and write good songs. "I want to feel like I'm sparkling and then want the songs to feel like treasure, like candy," Thomas says.

But touch is not the only sense that puts King Tuff in creative mode. Like most of us, the primitive sense of smell does it for him. "I love the smell of hose water on cement and of wood smoke in the frozen air," he says.

King Tuff's latest album is Moo.

"I very much consider myself a writer," Lindsey Jordan (Snail Mail) says. And any good writer has a ritual. Part of Jordan's ritual involves the balance between keeping the writing process precious and recognizing that too much preciousness can create a rut. Regardless, Jordan's love of reading (and poetry!) makes her one hell of a lyricist.

Snail Mail's latest album is Ricochet.

Nate Ruess's songwriting catalog includes his Grammy winning band Fun; his co-write and co-performance with P!nk on "Just Give Me a Reason"; and songs for Hayley Williams, Kesha, and Young Thug. After feeling no urge to write for ten years, he's back with the first new material in twenty years for his band The Format. Their new album is Boycott Heaven. And as you'll hear, nothing gets Ruess in the songwriting groove quite like a good, long run along the beach.

Procrastinators unite! Thank you, Tyler Ballgame, you are a kindred spirit. Finally someone who admits that procrastination is a great tool for writing. So much has been written on the evils of procrastination, yet some people achieve peak efficiency only when they're under pressure.

But sleep works for Ballgame too: as you'll hear, some of his best songs started as dreams. And his ideal state of mind for songwriting is what he calls "mindlessness."

Tyler Ballgame's debut album is For the First Time, Again on Rough Trade Records.

“When I go to the grocery store, that’s part of the songwriting process. When I work on my truck, that’s part of my songwriting process. Every aspect of our life feeds into our creativity. The more present I can be, the better the songs,” says Buck Meek.

Meek, the guitarist in Big Thief, is the first songwriter to discuss how “fluid dynamics” impact his songwriting. The ocean—with its waves, shifting sand, temperature fluctuation, and changing tides—inspires him because these shifting elements mirror his creative process. And when Meek towels off, getting started is usually easy because he doesn’t believe in writer’s block, calling it "a privileged idea that comes from a pursuit of excellence or even perfection. I start my process with as little preciousness as possible by allowing myself to be trite, silly, childish, or playful, for example. I’m much more likely to experiment when I start in these states.”

Buck Meek’s latest album is The Mirror. Here’s the link to my 2017 transcribed interview with Big Thief’s Adrianne Lenker.

Jade Long and Jessica Thompson of Athens, Georgia based Hotel Fiction have a simple routine for their songwriting sessions: make some brownies, pour some wine. And they like to be outside. It's not complicated.

But while food, drink, and the outdoors are all common sources of inspiration for songwriters, one element of the Hotel Fiction writing process is unique. When they're outside, they often prefer the top of a parking deck on the University of Georgia's campus. (Long and Thompson are both UGA alums.)

I've been a big Hotel Fiction fan ever since discovering them on a trip to Athens a few years ago. Our daughter is also a UGA alum and still lives in Athens, so we go there often. The city obviously has a rich music history, and there's still a lot of great music there.

Hotel Fiction's latest album is Staring at the Sun.

Nat and Alex Wolff had me at Sam Shepard. The playwright/writer/actor was one of my dissertation topics and the brothers acted in his plays, so we agreed early on that he's one of our favorite writers. (After you listen, please read Shepard's Pulitzer Prize winning play Buried Child.)

I’ve interviewed other actors who are also songwriters, and as you’ll hear, all channel their stage experience when they write songs. The Wolff brothers call these elements “artistic nutrients”: all the things we ingest that help us hone our craft.

As an aside, this could’ve been the most fun I’ve had on a podcast. And in a first, we were somehow able to connect Watergate to the songwriting process.

Nat and Alex Wolff's self-titled album is out now.