Ep.135: Anne Caspari, how can we handle complexity in transformations?

In this episode of Leaders Talk, Karsten speaks with Anne Caspari – coach, specialist for complexity and partner at Leadership Choices.

At the heart of the conversation is the Cynefin Framework developed by Dave Snowden. Anne explains how it helps leaders distinguish between ordered, complex, and chaotic contexts – and why many organizational challenges fail when they are approached with linear logic. She introduces concepts such as emergence, weak signals, and sensemaking, andcontrasts them with traditional tools like surveys that often strip context away.

Anne shares how narrative-based approaches, such asSenseMaker®, enable organizations to work with real stories rather than predefined hypotheses, making the “unknown unknowns” visible. The episode offers deep insights into culture change, values, and what organizations need to learn in order to act wisely in complex environments.

Topics in this episode:

· Anne’s path into complexity work (2:20)

· The Cynefin Framework and decision-making in complexity (3:50)

· Emergent systems and weak signals (11:00)

· Why surveys often fail in complex contexts (21:40)

· Working with unknown unknowns (40:40)

· Values, sensemaking tools, and practical examples (47:20)

· Staying optimistic in uncertain times (1:21:00)

Further links:https://www.leadership-choices.com/https://thecynefin.cohttps://www.linkedin.com/in/annecaspari/?originalSubdomain=de

What are your thoughts? Share your reflections in thecomments. If you have suggestions for inspiring guests for Leaders Talk, feel free to write to ⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠.

Guest: Anne CaspariHost: Karsten DrathProduction & Editing: Hannah Jandl & Konradin SchuchterResearch & Preparation: Lena Wokurka & Antonia Kaiser