Ricky Sandler - Investing Through Perception Shifts and Market Cycles

Ricky Sandler, founder, CEO, and CIO of Eminence Capital, joins hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos to explore a dynamic career spanning over three decades in long-short investing. Starting with stories from his upbringing and early career, Ricky unpacks the foundations of his investment philosophy centered around "change in perception" — a framework shaped by evolving market structures and investor behavior. He shares insights from navigating the 1998 crisis, outlines the value of rigorous risk management, and explains how quality businesses combined with contrarian thinking create lasting opportunities. The conversation also delves into quant integration, thoughtful activism, the nuances of portfolio construction, and his reflections on AI, market structure, and societal risks — and much more! Key Topics: ● Ricky Sandler's upbringing, tennis, and early exposure to finance (0:00) ● The influence of competitive tennis on his investing mindset (3:58) ● Why he considered law before ultimately pursuing finance (5:55) ● Lessons from early roles at Mark Asset and Fusion Capital (7:30) ● Insights from the 1998 market crisis and developing better risk management (10:06) ● Defining 'change in perception' and its role in investment strategy (12:21) ● Understanding shifts in market behavior post-GFC (14:42) ● COVID-era investment case study: Red Rock Resorts (22:31) ● Portfolio construction principles and balancing risk/reward (27:56) ● Integrating quant and data science at Eminence Capital (33:44) ● Activism and engaged ownership strategies (36:34) ● Thoughts on AI, bubbles, and systemic market risks (38:36) ● Risk management and portfolio design in volatile environments (41:06) ● How Ricky trains his team to distill what matters in investing (42:39) ● AI's role in analyst work and future of research (44:27) ● Worries and hopes for the future: market structure, government debt, and optimism (46:39) ● Book and podcast recommendations (49:30) ● Closing remarks (51:02) ● And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: ● Eminence Capital ● Ashland Inc. ● Entain ● Red Rock Resorts ● Live Nation ● Meta ● Tesla ● Salesforce ● Zillow ● KKR ● Pluralsight ● Autodesk ● Men's Wearhouse ● Think Again by Adam Grant ● Grit by Angela Duckworth ● Teaming by Amy Edmondson ● Quit by Annie Duke ● Mindset by Carol Dweck ● Invisible Influence by Jonah Berger ● Lessons of the Titans by Tim Ferriss ● 1929 by William Klingaman Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at [e-mail]. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more! Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Spotify Email Heilbrunn Center Instagram LinkedIn