Michele Norris Jesse Tyler Ferguson, thank you so much for being with us.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Thank you for having me. This is a thrill.

Michele Norris Now, I don't think we've talked to anybody who hails from Albuquerque on the show, so I'm eager to learn about the kitchen that you grew up in. Tell me about your mama's kitchen. What did it look like? What did it smell like? Close your eyes and give me a vivid description.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Okay. Albuquerque, New Mexico. Okay, so we lived in a, Adobe house. A lot of houses are Adobe, beautiful brown houses. They all kind of look the same, but they have, like, little differences with each of them. My kitchen was very small. It was a small square room in the center of the house. And that was obviously, you know, the meeting point, that all the rooms sort of connected to this one kitchen. So I remember it was a cramped space. And my mom was… she's a retired OB/GYN nurse. And, so she… she would spend time in the kitchen, but, you know, it was mostly weekends. And during the holidays, she would really, you know, get in there and create some incredible meals. But usually during the week, it was quick things. And she didn't spend a ton of time in there because she didn't have the time to spend in there. But it was a very warm, inviting space, obviously a gathering place in the morning for breakfast. I remember my dad for the longest time, would always come out and eat his breakfast in his underwear. And I was like, no, no, please, please stop doing that.

Michele Norris I wanna ask, boxers or briefs?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Mostly briefs. Yeah, yeah. You know, he put himself a bowl of cereal and just sort of sit there in his underwear. And now I'm like, that age where I'm. I'm a dad now, and I'm like, I, would I ever do that? I just don't think I would. I don't think I would ever come to the breakfast table in my underwear. But the kitchen was a lovely place. Yeah, it felt like the heart of the home. I mean, it truly was literally in the center of our house. It was an old house. I don't know if that was like standard for these homes in Albuquerque to have the center room, be the kitchen. I think, you know, because I do know that Adobe homes are created to, stay cool during the summer and warm during the winter. That's why the clay is there. So I think there is something about the kitchen being in the center. Especially during the winter…

Michele Norris To be the hearth to warm the house.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah, exactly. That's right. And if we it's not like we have like a roaring fire in there or anything if it's, you know, electric stove. But yea (laughs)

Michele Norris But the heat did emanate when something was cooking

Jesse Tyler Ferguson It did. That’s right.

Michele Norris I don't want to belabor the point, but when dad would show up at the kitchen table with his briefs on, would he clear the table? Would it? Oh, I can't be here for this. Would everyone else just get up and leave?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah, I knew we'd circle back to this. No, I think we all just you know. It was just sort of part of the morning. I. I'm sure there was a point where I got old enough that I did sort of mention to him that he should put on some pants, or at least a t shirt. Yeah. I don't know how long that phase lasted. I just me and my siblings were actually talking about this not too long ago. We all remember specifically, coming to the table in his underwear. Weird.

Michele Norris Well, you know, it was his house.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson It was, you know. Truly? Yeah. And if I, you know, I might just try it one day at my home and see what people say. I'm feeling okay about myself. Maybe I'll do it. (laughs)

Michele Norris You have a brother and a sister, yes?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yes both younger than me.

Michele Norris Would you have regular family meals? And was that where things got worked out in your family? At the kitchen table.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Breakfast usually always happened around the same time. I wouldn't say that they were like family meals because, you know, there was chaos in the morning and everyone's getting ready to leave and are going to separate schedules. But that was the time that the most of the family was in the same space, because dinners were harder, because my parents were working. And me and my siblings all had different activities. And sometimes, you know, someone to have soccer practice, and they'd get home later. But that was always a time where we talk about our day, obviously. And I remember my mom would sometimes be telling stories about her day at the doctor's, who she was, an OB/GYN, and she had some, like, crazy, insane stories about, you know. Different pregnant people who had come in and, you know, so we would we would definitely, we would recap our days, over the weekends, around the table in our kitchen. Yeah.

Michele Norris So dad was in the military?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yes, he was in the military, but he also, was an, microbiologist for the state lab, so that was his main job. And then he also was in the, Naval Reserves.

Michele Norris Did he cook at all?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson No. He grilled. He's a great griller and he still has to this day. He's really good with the grill. But even he would admit that he's not a great cook. He really loves making fruit salad. He would make huge fruit salads that, you know, no one could eat in time. Like you would make these massive bowls for, like, basically what would be like a company picnic. But it was just our family. And, you know, he would chop up every type of fruit that you could think of. And he would. And still to this day, he loves making a fruit salad. There was a point where he was really into juicing. So we have the juicer in the kitchen, which, you know, like most people who decide they want to juice their own juices at home, that only lasts a few months. And then they started collecting dust and then, like, ended up at a garage sale.

Michele Norris What is it about juicers, though. I mean, it's it's. What do you do with all that pulp?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I know and I'm not I'm not a pulp fan. My dad's parents lived in Florida for a long time, and they had orange trees in their backyard. And so we would always when we go to their house, we'd squeeze the oranges for morning orange juice. And my dad loved all that pulp and the juice, and I hated it. I would always make him strain it for me. And then he would take whatever pulp he'd strain from my cup and pour it into his cup. So he had double pulp. So basically…

Michele Norris So it's like a slushy.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson He was chewing his orange juice. But yeah, he loved he loved pulp, which, you know, was interesting because he had this juicer and that was, you know, taking out all of that pulp. He was in a health kick phase and thought that that would be something he should do. Yeah.

Michele Norris That's the thing about juicer. So we had a juicer once, and I was making carrot juice for a while because I read that it was good for me, and I had all this carrot pulp, and I was putting sneaking it in a spaghetti and meatloaf, and my kids were turning orange. And so I just kind of stopped. Stopped.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson That's right, that's right. Yeah.

Michele Norris Okay. We’re definitely coming back to that.But first, at your house. You said your dad like to grill. That seems to confirm a theory. I have that men cook when fire is involved. Ask them to make lasagna or boil water. Not interested. But if there is a grill and it includes briquettes or a gas flame, then yes, I’m in.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson That's right that's right. I do remember my dad was in charge because if my mom had to work late, he would have to be in charge of putting the meal together. And it was usually like 1 or 2 recipes that he could tackle. And one of them was spaghetti and red sauce. You know, it's just boiling the water, putting that dry spaghetti and heating up the red sauce. Boom. Done. But he tended to always overcook, the pasta. So it was sort of gluey.

Michele Norris Hmhm.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson But he was a great, he was great at the grill. He was.

Michele Norris So I want you to tell me about a young Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Okay. As a young kid, I was extremely shy.

Michele Norris That’s surprising I must say.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I know, I know because I. Well, you know, now I'm. I love putting myself in front of massive amounts of people with wigs and hats and tattoos and all that stuff. I love that. But as a kid, I was very, very shy. I, you know, I think part of it was I always felt like an outsider. I think even before I knew that I was gay, I felt like I was different than other kids. I didn't hold interest in things that I felt like young boys should hold interest in. I, you know, tried to play soccer. I didn't really understand the game. I didn't have an interest in learning the game. I think my parents struggled with a place to put me for, socialization. I was definitely an outsider at school. I had a hard time making friends, specifically in grade school. And I discovered theater when my mom took me to a local, community theater production. It was children performing for other children, basically. And I sat in the audience and I thought, I don't want to be on this side of the footlights. I'd rather be on stage. And I asked my mom if I could do something like that. So she reached out to that community theater program and signed me up for it. But I think she was shocked because I was so shy that that was something that I wanted to do because it really, you know, begs of you to be an extrovert. I mean, and I think that all I really needed was to feel safe around a community of people, that enjoyed a similar interest as me. And like with soccer, for example. I mean, I was with all these kind of rowdy boys who understood the game and like, I didn't feel like anyone was taking any time to explain something to me. And I felt too shy to ask, like, how do you play this game? I remember one of the first games we had, I was running out to the field with all other the boys, these kids and I tripped over our sprinkler and the whole team ran over me, which, you know, was traumatizing.

Michele Norris No one reached back with their hand and said, help… you get up on your feet?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson No, I think my dad picked me up and I ended up watching that game from the sidelines. And that was maybe the last time I went to soccer practice. But with theater, you know, it was this group of kids that, first of all, they weren't kids that I went to school with. So they were a new, new group of people. I felt like I could start fresh with them, which was also something I realized at that very young age that, you know, there's something really beautiful of meeting a new group of people because there's no history there. And you could start new. And, that's a theme that has carried on into my life, like I love. Meeting new groups of people and entering into new, new power dynamics, because you can sort of start fresh and, you know, without the baggage of what people think of you or know of you. And, I've really just sort of thrived in this theater program. And so I think, you know, it was I kind of had to live scoring up. I had Jesse in school, and I had Jesse when he got to be on stage and be around the theater kids. And obviously I loved one way more than the other. And you know, it's interesting cause as my mom has heard me talk a lot about my childhood. As you know, I've been asked to do interviews and podcasts, and she was telling me the other day, you know, I have my own podcast. So sometimes I talk about my own personal life. I'm on the podcast and she listens to that pretty religiously. And she didn't always know that. I thought this way growing up and part of that breaks my heart because now, as a parent now, I can only imagine what she must be feeling knowing that like I had such a hard time growing up because, gosh, if I knew my son was going through that and not talking to me about it, it would just break my heart. Like, of course I just want to protect him. But, I try to make her feel better by knowing that I had always, I always felt very secure at home. I always felt very secure under her roof. And, whether or not I was comfortable talking to her about being bullied in school had no reflection on how she made me feel. She made me feel very safe. Both my parents did. So I had a deep connection to both my parents and specifically my mom. And, you know, a lot of the bonding time we had. I mean, I'm not just saying this to bring it back to your podcast, but was in the kitchen, you know, working together in the kitchen and making cookies at Christmas time and all that stuff. So I felt like that was a shared interest that we both had. Even though I wasn't skilled in the kitchen and neither was she. Really. It's but it's something that we could do alongside one another, even quietly, without talking, you know, and just have that thing be the thing we do.

Michele Norris Yeah. The kitchen has its own language, you know, don't beat up on yourself too much about not telling your mom, because when you're children of the 70s, we didn't talk as much then. Yeah, right. We just, you know, we live out loud now. Even at school, we were we weren't we weren't going to the Twitter or going to whatever they call it now, ex and Instagram and Snapchat and all that. We were passing notes surreptitiously. So, you know, this was not the kind of thing that, that, that people would really talk about openly. Right. And there's a beautiful thing when someone finds their tribe, and it's especially wonderful when it's a young person because it's harder to do when you're young, when you found your tribe in the theater, did your family at home start to see a different version of you? Were you more outgoing? Were you…

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I think there was in a way that I had an interest that I was then bringing into the home. Like I just decided I loved Broadway. And so I would, you know, listening to Broadway cassette tapes and later CDs. You know, I had show posters in my room. So I think they saw me attached to a thing. And through that thing that I was attached to, I became more open. But I think that my mom and dad, seeing that I had this passion for it, I think obviously they showed interest in it because it was something that I showed interest in. My son right now, he's interested in things that I have, I know nothing about. Obviously the things that kids are interested now are so different than the things that I was interested as a kid. But I'm learning to find interest in these things and learn about them. And, but I do want to say something about the tribe thing. I I do agree with you that, you know, I, I definitely changed when I found that, that that group of people that thought, like my people.

Michele Norris When you were, going up and, you said you figured out that you were different very early, when you were living as a young gay man in your high school years. Did you feel like you had support inside the home and outside the home, or was that something that you were also keeping very tightly to yourself?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I mean, no, I didn't feel like I had support inside the home or outside the home. Which was the hard thing for me. And I think that would pain my parents to hear that now, but it is sort of the truth. And I think a lot of that was based in fear. You know, we're talking about the 80s right now. The Aids epidemic was raging. I think there was obviously it was incredibly stigmatized. I was also being raised in a very red state, a very conservative state. I went to Catholic school, you know, I, my church taught me that that was wrong. And it was a sin to be gay. And even though we weren't staunch Catholics, I do think that my parents found comfort and the teachings of Catholicism, and I think that it sort of gave them a, a blueprint for just Ethics. I think they suspected that I was gay. And I think that they feared that greatly. And, I was sent to a therapist when I was, maybe ten, 11, 12 ish. And I remember this therapist that they sent me to would just play with me for an hour. And, I mean, looking back on it, it seems so obvious, but it was like, you know, I was given a choice of things to play with, whether it was like dolls or trucks. And I would like, want to play the board game life, which I think was probably very confusing for the therapist. But I just remember there was like tropes. It was like a girl's toy box and a boy's toy box, and I like, I kind of gravitated toward the things that were just like neither one of those. And but I do remember going to the surface for, for quite some time, and I think my parents were sending me there because they wanted an answer from a professional whether or not I was gay or different. And, I think that was hard for them. And, it was something that I decided not to talk about because it felt like this thing that was wrong. And even though I felt support from them in so many other ways, I didn't feel like I was going to get support there. And I also just felt like I always felt like Albuquerque, New Mexico was a place that I was just stopping over in before going on to the next thing.

Michele Norris You knew that early on.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I did. I did, even though I didn't know what New York was or Los Angeles was, or any of the places that I now live… You know, my exposure to New York was through my love of Broadway, even though it was like this, version of New York that I saw, like on the Tony Awards or, you know, photos. And, I didn't have any sort of real concrete version of what New York was, but I always knew that I was going to move on to someplace other than Albuquerque. And I felt like whatever that place was, it was going to be okay then for me to become fully myself. And I would just deal with that, then.

Michele Norris That was your North Star. There was something else out there for me.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Michele Norris You've talked about your coming out story, and that it's not a single story.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah.

Michele Norris That you came out, three times. And let me get this right when you were 17, 19 and 21 was that.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson You know, I'm sort of guesstimating, but that seems about right. It's. I had a very sloppy coming out. I'm, you know, because I've been talking about it a lot, and I don't ever know how to fully tell the story. And I feel like there's different nuances every time I tell it, because I just feel like I stumbled out of the closet. I didn't open the door cleanly and just walk out. And I think that a lot of people can relate to that. It's sort of a process.

Michele Norris Absolutely. Because there's this assumption that TADA and the doors fly open and for most people that’s not what happens

Jesse Tyler Ferguson That's not what happens. And it was sort of a reckoning with myself. And obviously, you know, people talk about coming out to yourself and coming at your friends and coming out publicly. And I don't even know if it was as clear cut as that for me. You know, I mean, I obviously knew I was attracted to men at a young age. And so when People magazine would come into the mail or like these clothing catalogs, I would kind of go through them and I would find the photos of the guys and I would sometimes tear out those pages and keep them for myself. And then, I did get caught stealing gay pornography when I was probably 16 or 17. But yeah, if we're going to talk about me coming out, that sort of felt to me like my first coming out and talk about sloppy. I mean, that was very sloppy. And I never said the word I'm gay. And then, the next time it sort of came up. Was when I was in, I guess college. I went to Performing Arts Academy in New York City, and, my mom came to visit me, and I was casually dating my roommate at the time, a guy who I was going to school with. And, you know, we were keeping it very, very quiet and very secretive. And parents know they're intuitive. And like, she could tell that there was a special relationship there. And when she got back home to Albuquerque, she, she wrote me a letter and saying, you know, I think that John is more than just a friend. And I don't know if he's your boyfriend. And, you know, I we've never talked about you being gay, but, you know, that's something that I'm willing to talk to you about if you want to. My mom and I did end up having a conversation about it. And then when my dad came to visit me, a few months later, he asked me if I had a girlfriend, and I said, dad, why would I have a girlfriend? I'm gay. And he's like, oh, yes, your mother mentioned something about that. And so for me, it was like I had to come out to my dad three times, once with the pornography being the shoplifting. Then my mom, I literally told him, you know, I've had this conversation with Jesse, and then I had to come out personally to him as well. So when I talk about coming out to my dad three times, that's the story I remember.

Michele Norris You've talked about also how you have great empathy though for them, for the way that they've kind of wrestled with it and try to figure out at a moment where people do talk a lot about that or there wasn't… there wasn’t a show like Modern Family on TV.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Exactly. I mean, I recognize the era we were in. I recognize what was happening in the world at that time. There was literally, a disease that was being tied to being gay. Obviously, that's not accurate. I mean, anyone could have, contract HIV and Aids, but, you know, it was targeted toward. But mostly it was gay men and I, my parents were just they were scared for me. Also now that I'm a parent, I have even more empathy for them. You know, all you want is for your children to be safe and to have the best possible life. And I think they were just really scared. And but that being said, I mean, they also were so supportive of me moving to New York and pursuing this dream I had. And it was so different than Albuquerque. And I, I really respect how, supportive and encouraging they were, towards something that must have been incredibly scary for them.

Michele Norris And I bet they are so proud of you right now.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Oh, gosh. I mean, they really are.

Michele Norris Does your mom walk around with T-shirts that say “Ask me about my son”? (laughs) Because she could and she should.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah, she definitely loves people now for sure.

Michele Norris And I read also, I read a lot about you before this conversation, and I have this great picture in my head of your dad dancing at your wedding when you married Joe.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yes. My dad and I have had a bit of a journey with my coming out and me being gay. And honestly, the biggest thing for him, I think, has been me being a successful actor, which has been surprising to me because, you know, I'm doing this thing that I wanted to do and I'm doing it really well, and I've made a living off of it. And I've had great success. But I think for him it was hard for him to. Embrace me being so openly comfortable with myself on national television. And then on top of that, portraying a gay character, on national television. And for me, it seemed like such a wonderful opportunity. When Modern Family started, we were still fighting for marriage equality. There was only a handful of states where you could legally be married as a same sex couple. And I was like, this is such a wonderful pop culture touchstone for that cause, I mean, I cannot wait to bring this gay couple into living rooms all across America. And I thought that, people's hearts and minds can be changed by this show and by these characters. And my dad initially was like, I don't understand why you have to play so many gay characters. And. That was a moment where we really had to like. First of all, I didn't speak to him for a while after that because I didn't know how to confront him about that. But we did talk about it, and, I. You know, I said, dad this is my life. I am this person. I want you to be involved in all parts of my life. I want you to be proud of the projects I choose. I want you to recognize that. Some of these projects are more than just a job for me. There are meaningful contributions that I'm trying to bring into the world. And, I recommended that he start therapy. And I suggested he go to P-flag meetings, which is a support group for for gay and lesbian parents. And he did that and became very active in his local flag chapter. And I was incredibly proud of him for that. And I think that really helped him. Understand, where I was coming from without me having to sort of break it down for him because I also was exhausted. I mean, I didn't want to have to do that work for him. And so I, I'm really proud of him for taking that time and doing that work on his own. But that was all like to say that in that moment where you're saying you saw this wonderful photo of him dancing at our wedding. That was a perfect moment where, like, I could never have imagined that this man who asked me if I was gay three times, or I need to come out to three times, would ever be dancing at my wedding, to another man. And he was. He had the best time at that wedding, and he was. He is fully supportive of me and my husband, and he loves his grandkids. And, I just I see how far he's come. And I also see how far he can still grow.

Michele Norris That's a beautiful thing. And we should say, dad, we love you.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson We do love you.

Michele Norris And yes, your son talked about you having breakfast in your underwear, but that's okay. (laughs) That's all right. You're not the only one that does that.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson No, he doesn't do it anymore. I don't think.

Michele Norris I love that you tell this story, though, because for two reasons. That you mentioned P flag. Because if you're listening, there may be a chapter near you. And more than ever in the times that we're living. And families may need that resource right now, because they may be living in an even greater level of discomfort because of the political discourse right now. So I'm glad that you mentioned that, and I'm glad that you tell the story, because sometimes parents have to figure out how to come out on their own.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson That's right, that's right. Yeah.

Michele Norris I think in fact, I know for a lot of families, mine included the conversations that we had around coming out around living, somewhere in the LGBTQ+ spectrum was completely different because there were 11 seasons of Modern Family. Did you recognize that this is more than just I think I heard you say that more than just a job in Hollywood, that this was, oh, we're pulling our culture forward.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Oh, one hundred percent. Yes. I was so grateful that I could portray this character and, also that I had a lived experience that I could filter that through, you know, Eric Stonestreet, who played my husband on the show, is straight. And, I can't imagine anyone else ever playing that role.

Michele Norris He was perfect though. Cam was just…

Jesse Tyler Ferguson He was perfect. He was perfect. And I can't imagine doing that, having that experience with anyone other than him. And he also, I think, really recognized the responsibility that he had and wanted to do the best possible job with that character. And together… I don't know. We really took it very seriously. But also knowing that our main job is to make people laugh. These characters being gay was really kind of hopefully far down on the list. They just happened to be these two men navigating parenthood, alongside their wacky family members and you know, we presented these characters in a way that gay characters hadn't been presented before, and that felt very important, and it felt like responsibility. And I was really excited to take the challenge on.

Michele Norris So as you and your husband, Justin, build a life together, I'm interested in your kitchen and the kind of kitchen that you've created for your family.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Well, I mean, I have taken what my mom and I experienced together in the kitchen, and I have amplified that a bit. I mean, I really do love to cook. Like my mom. I don't always have as much time as I would like to, to create meals. But I have enjoyed the challenge of, pushing myself and learning new skills. Justin's terrible in the kitchen. I'm the only person who cooks.

Michele Norris Does he know that or he just…

Jesse Tyler Ferguson He does. He does. He knows he’s…

Michele Norris Abdicates his responsibility completely to you because he's aware or self-aware?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah. He's pretty useless. He has cooked a few meals for me that have been lovely. But, you know, they're not they're pretty standard, but I really enjoy providing home cooked meals for the family. And now that my son, my older son, is three and a half now, he understands what it means to prepare a meal, and I love to include him in ways that, you know, my mom used to include me and in simple ways, like whether it just be standing at a counter height and watching me put ingredients together for a meal or if it's, you know, him juicing lemons for lemonade. Like, I really try and find ways for him to participate, and be a part of that. And he loves it. And I love that he likes that we do that together. It's really meaningful. I made holiday cookies with him this past Christmas, and I took so many photos of us making holiday cookies together, because for me, that was such a full circle moment. I have pictures of me making cookies with my mom and I was like, I have such core memories of that and I could see the potential of those being core memories for him and my thought was are you ever too old to have core memories for yourself? Because this is one for me. Like it just meant so much to me to have this simple moment. He didn't even know that it it was an important moment for me. He was just interested in, like, rolling out some dough. But I was just I stepped back and I was like, this is incredible that I'm having this moment with him.

Michele Norris And that's a tradition. You can carry on now.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah. Yeah.

Michele Norris So when you think about Albuquerque, there is a taste. There's a particular and it's different than Texas and it's different than New Mexico even. What to you taste like home?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Hatch green chili. That's, you know, quintessential, New Mexican food and specifically Albuquerque. I mean, hatch green chilies are indigenous to the area. And, you know, they there's hatch green chili roasting season every year and that, you can just smell it in the air. They're usually roasted on these outdoor fires and, then sold at markets and in the areas, and it usually only happens for a brief amount of time in the fall. And because I don't live in Albuquerque now, my family knows that it's important for me to have that piece of that home every year. So they usually pick up some from me and freeze it and then bring it to me when they come to, Los Angeles or New York or wherever I'm at. But every time I go home to Albuquerque, my dad still lives there with his wife, and my sister is there with her wife. And we always make it a point to to have some sort of new Mexican meal. And that always includes saucy green chili. And some sort of an enchilada. The other thing about, New Mexican food is it's very sloppy looking. The plate sort of looks like a stew or a hodgepodge of different colors. And you have the bright yellow from the cheddar cheese. You know that we don't use that traditional Mexican cheese. It's that cheddar cheese, and it's the pinto beans and, the green chili and I like to get my chili on my meals, done Christmas style, which means red and green. And, there's something about the taste of it that is so specific to Albuquerque, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but it begins with that green chili.

Michele Norris And it's different in Albuquerque than it is elsewhere in New Mexico, because kind of where the, the food that is indigenous to that state kind of meets city food. So it's kind of like a…

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Right. That's exactly right.

Michele Norris Mixture of those things. So the recipe, we always give our listeners a recipe, the recipe that you want to share with us is green chili stew. But it's green chili chicken stew.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Right.

Michele Norris So tell us about this green chili. Chicken stew. That means so much to you.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Well, it's interesting. A few years ago, when I became more active in the kitchen, and I was cooking more for my family, I asked my mom if she was not using her recipe box anymore, if she could send that to me. So she sent me a whole bunch of index cards with written out recipes. And, a lot of them include not only green chili, but usually a canned soup that's sort of atop whatever she's making at the very end. So this is one of those…

Michele Norris She was working! She was in a hurry.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, and let me let's be honest, it was still delicious. But so I when I was looking for a recipe to share, I was looking through this, this box, and, I decided to pick this one because, it's sort of a great base, you know, you could do so many different things with it. But it's just a stew. It's a chicken stew with green chili. And it's something you can cook on the stove. It, you know, the aroma that fills the home is so warm and inviting and there are variations you could put on it, and, you know, you could create chicken enchiladas with the same sort of base and you could, pour it over the top of tacos, and you could eat it, on its own, or you could eat it inside a soap opera, which is a bread that is also, very famous in Albuquerque, New Mexico, that’s a puffed up bread, kind of like an Indian bread, but puffier like a little pillow. And I just, it reminds me of kind of a staple recipe that my mom would make for me and, yeah, just sort of felt like the best representation of if we're doing, like, Jesse's childhood 101 that's like, task number one is make some green chili chicken stew.

Michele Norris But we're going to make sure that people can find the recipe on my Instagram page on our website. But if you're hungry, as I am now, after listening to you talk about this and you want to get busy and make this in your own kitchen and you don't have access to those authentic green chilies, what do you use as a substitute? And I imagine you've probably done this because, you know, you don't live in Albuquerque anymore.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson That's right. I mean, I do have some frozen green chilies in my freezer But there are great canned options. You know, there is a brand called Hatch Green Chili that is totally suitable. There's a diced option, and then there's an option that's sort of more like the, the green chili. They look like tongues. And I prefer those because you could chop them a little bit bigger. And they don't quite they don't get lost in the recipe as much as the pre chopped ones do, they almost dissolve into the recipe. Whereas if they're a little larger you can actually see them and taste them. So I tried to go for the full size if possible, but they're in every grocery store. and I, I personally to get them as hard as possible. That's the other thing about green chilies is you can always tell how hot they're going to be. It's like that thing where like, you know, you come across a hot one. So they're like shishito peppers, or…

Michele Norris You just don't know. So you just need to have some water nearby.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson You just don’t know. That's right, that's right.

Michele Norris Maybe a glass of milk or something to put out the fire.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Yeah.

Michele Norris Can your kids take the heat? Are you raising them to have that kind of palate?

Jesse Tyler Ferguson I'm introducing spice to my three and a half year old a little bit. But you have to be pretty careful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the hatch green chilies that are canned are usually fine for him. They're really mild.

Michele Norris Jesse Tyler Ferguson, I love talking to you.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson This was so much fun.

Michele Norris Thank you, thank you.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Michele Norris Now wasn’t that fun! I just knew this was going to be a great conversation. Despite some growing pains and some denial from dad in the beginning, Jesse and his family found their way… embracing his identity as a gay man and an actor who played a gay married man in one of the biggest sitcoms of the past two decades. I will never forget the image of Jesse’s dad happily dancing at his wedding.

I think the key word in Jesse’s story is “safe”. Even at times in his childhood when he felt like he didn’t fit in, his mom made the home feel like a safe place. And the kitchen was a big part of that. At the end of the day, that’s one of the best things any parent can do for their child. To make them feel safe and secure and valued for who they are — just as they are.

I’m so glad you listen to this podcast and you might want to check his out also, it’s called Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson. AND if you want to learn how to make his green chili chicken stew, you can find it on my Instagram page at Michele underscore underscore Norris, that’s two underscores. AND you can also find it at our website along with all the recipes from previous episodes of Your Mama’s Kitchen. That’s at yourmamaskitchen.com.

AND before we say goodbye: We want to hear from you and here’s an example from one of our listeners.

She would make curries. She would use ingredients like fish sauce… baba ganoush ratatouille, we would have escargot. We would have fondue. Sometimes we would make our own sushi.I mean, it was just, so experimental and so diverse, and I hated it. There's a story in my family about when I was young and I exclaimed when I heard what was for dinner, could we please have something that I can pronounce? …however, I'm so grateful to my mom and to my family for…continuing to make different kinds of food and expose us to diverse cultures through food. And, and now my kitchen is eclectic and I cook from all over the world as well. And, just brings me so much joy…

Michele Norris Yep! We’re opening up our inbox for you to record yourself and tell us about your mama’s recipes, some memories from YOUR kitchen growing up, or your thoughts on some of the stories you’ve heard on this podcast. Make sure to send us a voice memo at Y-M-K AT Higher Ground Productions DOT com… that’s Y-M-K AT Higher Ground Productions DOT com for a chance to be featured in a future episode!

Make sure to come back next week because you know us, we’re always serving up something special – and until then, stay bountiful.

Michele: This has been a Higher Ground and Audible Original. Produced by Higher Ground Studios.

Senior producer - Natalie Rinn. Producer - Sonia Htoon.

Additional production support by Misha Jones.

Sound design and engineering from Andrew Eapen and Ryan Kozlowski.

Higher Ground Audio's editorial assistant is Camila Thur de Koos.

Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick White, Mukta Mohan, Dan Fierman and me, Michele Norris.

Executive producers for Audible are Nick D’Angelo and Ann Heppermann.

Chief Content Officer Rachel Ghiazza.

The show’s closing song is 504 by The Soul Rebels.

Editorial and web support from Melissa Bear and Say What Media.

Talent booker - Angela Peluso.

SPECIAL THANKS THIS WEEK TO Real Voice LA.

And that’s it — goodbye everybody.

Copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC.

Sound Recording copyright 2024 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC.