Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.
Tricia Ford: Hi, listeners. I'm Audible Editor Tricia Ford, and I'm thrilled to be here today with Tiffany Crum to talk about her debut novel, This Story Might Save Your Life. Welcome to Audible, Tiffany.
Tiffany Crum: Thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to be here.
TF: This Story Might Save Your Life is a tale of two best friends, Benny and Joy, who are co-hosts of a comedy survival podcast, and they joke that they've been saving each other's lives since the moment they first met. But that all changes when Joy disappears and Benny is suspected to be the murderer. It's a perfect combination of thriller, mystery, and a love story, with a really dynamic audio experience. As we mentioned, this is your first novel. What led you to write this book? What was your journey to writing?
TC: So, technically, it's not the first book I have written. It was actually quite a long journey getting here, which started about 20 years ago. I grew up in a very practical household. We were dairy farming folk. It never occurred to me that I could be a writer for a living or even pursue it even as a pastime. It was something that I did in secret. I would write little stories in my journal and never show anyone. And then I got pregnant with my oldest son, and I had kept a journal for him, a journal of wishes. At the top of that list was my hope that he would have the courage to pursue his dreams one day. I wrote it down, and I looked at it, and I said to myself, "Darn it, Tiffany, how can you teach by example if you aren't doing the same?"
So, that was the moment that kind of changed the trajectory of my life. Cue montage of me getting my MFA, writing several practice novels. I had a practice agent. Around the time that I wrote this book, I had just broken up with an agent, and I was starting to think that maybe I should give up on this crazy dream. I said to myself, "Why don't we try one more novel? Why don't we do one more book and just have a ton of fun with it?" I was reading a lot of thrillers and rom-coms at the time. I would listen to rom-coms during the day on audiobook and then I would read thrillers in my bed at night. What I found was that I wanted more thrills in my romances and more romance in my thrillers. So, I said to myself, "Why don't I do that?"
"I was starting to think that maybe I should give up on this crazy dream. I said to myself, 'Why don't we try one more novel? Why don't we do one more book and just have a ton of fun with it?'"
That was kind of how this idea was born. But the real tear-jerking, full-circle moment of my life was what happened when, a couple months later, my son was writing essays for his college applications. And in one of the essays he was asked to write about a book that inspired him, and he turned the essay back to me and talked about how all the years of watching me pursue and then finally achieve my dreams has given him the courage to pursue his own. And honestly, not to diminish all of the amazing things that have come out of this publication of This Story Might Save Your Life, I think, honestly, those 18, 19, 20 years of hardship were worth it just for that moment.
TF: That's an amazing story. That's got to feel good. And I hope he got into his first choice [laughs].
TC: He did. He did [laughs].
TF: Very good. But to get back into the story itself, another thing that I read about is how you had Julia Whelan's voice in mind as you wrote Joy.
TC: I should be clear to everyone listening that I did not even for a minute think that I would be lucky enough to have Julia Whelan narrate as Joy. But I did have her voice in my head, as one does when they're writing books because she's so good at narrating. I had her cadence and I had her rhythm in my head with Joy. I always read all of my books, every single draft of every single book, I read aloud. I would read it in the way that I would imagine Julia to read it. So, I knew when we got her that there would be absolutely no disconnect between my expectation of her read of the audiobook and the reality, and it's absolutely true.
TF: When did you find out that it was going to be Julia and Sean Patrick Hopkins reading?
TC: I think it was about a year ago when they asked me who I had in mind as my narrators. I gave them a long list, probably eight women, eight men, and at the top of the list was, of course, Julia. But I, once again, did not think that there was any chance that I was going to be able to be lucky enough to have her narrate my book. And yet, after I gave them that list, I thought about it all night and I was just like, "Wow, I just really, really, really would like to reinforce how much I would love for that to be Julia." So, I wrote a couple of follow-up emails like, "But, really, Julia. But, actually, really, Julia" [laughs].
When they told me that they were going to ask her, then I was, of course, delighted, but that still doesn't mean that you're actually going to be able to work with her, because there are so many things that come into play. It's not just availability. It's does she even want to work on this project? And when we found out that she did, I probably jumped around the house for like 15 minutes straight because I just love audiobooks so much. I probably listen to 80 percent of the books that I read, and I just knew that it was going to be good. What a dream come true for an audiobook lover to know that your book is going to be really good on audio.
TF: It certainly is. The entire program is so audio-centric. It's about podcasts, at its heart. And the program includes a lot of extra audio-only material, including duet recordings between your narrators of the podcast episodes. There's light sound design. Recordings from guest narrators come in, beyond your two main narrators, with questions and call-ins, and it's such a big part of the story and of what makes this audio extra special. What was it like hearing it come into fruition? How involved were you in that process?
TC: A year ago, I asked my editor if she would be willing to let me write a bonus episode, because there are obviously podcast clips throughout the book, but we see the beginning, we see the end, we see the middle, but we never see one full episode from the beginning to the end. I thought it would be so fun for people to be able to hear it from the beginning to end. I was really happy that she okayed the idea, but it was one of those things where I said, "If I write it and you hate it, please, please, please, please tell me that you don't like it because I don't want to offer this bonus material in the audiobook and have it fall flat."
"What a dream come true for an audiobook lover to know that your book is going to be really good on audio."
So, we had that bonus episode in mind, and then a couple of weeks later, my brilliant producer, Elishia Merricks, contacted me and said, "I have some ideas." They were going to have an influencer event, for audiobook influencers, at Macmillan Audio. She thought it would be really fun if they could record something while they were there. She said, "I feel like your book is actually perfect for this. What if we wrote in some special tips from the tip line? You already talk about a tip line in your book. What if we wrote some in and have them read these? Maybe you could write, like, 15 or something like that." I said, "Wow, that is a really, really good idea. I wish I had written this into the book, but absolutely, that'd be super fun for the audiobook. Let's do it."
So, they did that and I got to pick from all of the different choices, and it was very fun to listen to those. It was also Elishia's idea to do the duet scenes. We just basically cut out the “he saids” and “she saids” and it ended up working out really well. The first time I heard a duet, it was the bonus episode. I heard it all the way through. I cried because they did such an amazing job, and they were Benny and Joy. It's just crazy to me to hear it come to life like that. It's the first experience that I've ever had where my story comes to life. It was an absolutely dream come true.
TF: Wow, that's amazing. And for listeners who may not know, Joy, one of our main characters, suffers a sleep disorder, something I learned a lot about in this story. Curious where that came from, what kind of research was involved. It just seems so accurate and such a different representation than your stereotypical idea of what narcolepsy is.
TC: I did not intend to write about it from the very beginning. What happened was, I do have a friend who lives with a sleep disorder, and it's possible that was in the back of my head when I started writing. But I had the structure in mind, I had the characters in mind, I kind of knew the arc of the book, but it's in the drafting process that you really learn what makes them tick. I'd already written Benny's first chapter, and at the time I didn't have a day zero, so Joy's first chapter was the first chapter of her memoir. And the first words that I wrote on the page were, "I can sleep anywhere." I looked at them and I was like, "Why did I write that?" And I thought to myself, "Is it possible that Joy lives with a sleep disorder?" I did some research and I thought, "Wow, this is, first of all, works really well with the book. And second of all, this is really interesting."
When you're writing a book, you want to spend time with A) characters that you really love and B) subjects that you find really interesting and that you're willing to do a lot of research for. So, I said, "Yes, I would absolutely love to do research on this," and I did a ton of research, learning as much as I could. Then I made myself forget about 99 percent of it because I think one of the big challenges when you're writing about something that's new to you and also very technical and also that involves a lot of research is that you end up writing about that research first and not as much about the character. I wanted it to be not a story about a narcoleptic, but about a dynamic, intelligent, hardworking, funny woman who lives with the challenges of narcolepsy.
I wanted it to be very clear that she was a person first. So, what I would do is I would write a draft, and then I would go back and I would double check all of the research. And then I would let myself forget it again, and then I would write another draft, and then I would go back and double check all of the research. And because I agonized over getting it right, I really did. Not just with Joy's narcolepsy, but also there are other triggering things in the book that I wanted very much to portray sensitively and with empathy. I think probably half of my therapy sessions this year were about me saying, "Did I do enough? Did I portray this sensitively enough?" But it's just so important to me because I did want to write a book that is as accurate as possible and as believable as possible, and I hope that that comes across.
TF: It certainly does. It certainly does. And it's exactly what I meant by saying it's not stereotypical. Joy feels very much, first and foremost, like a real person. Now, another exciting thing that I just read about is that you've been chosen as a spring pick for BBC's Radio 2 Book Club. That's exciting.
TC: Yes, I'm very excited about this. I did not have that on my radar as something to even hope for. I was absolutely delighted when I found out.
TF: Did you expect to go global?
TC: I mean, we have foreign rights deals. I was thinking about the fact that, yes, there will be other countries that have heard about This Story Might Save Your Life, but to imagine myself having an interview with the BBC was not something that I had even let myself hope for. When I was writing all those years back, when I was having these failed novels, my practice novels, I was always writing literary fiction. I was writing quiet books that nobody wants to read, but the reason was because I had so desperately wanted to someday finally have an interview on NPR. And then to find out that I get to have an interview with BBC, which is arguably much bigger, is kind of wild to me.
"I wanted it to be not a story about a narcoleptic, but about a dynamic, intelligent, hardworking, funny woman who lives with the challenges of narcolepsy."
TF: And a book club pick! So many Brits are going to be listening to the story.
TC: Yes, and I get the sticker!
TF: And you get the sticker. And then those mysteries, they're going to eat it up. Like I keep saying, it's just perfect. And perfect for a radio audience because they're built-in audio fans, too.
TC: Yes, exactly.
TF: We've talked about audio a lot, so I want to get to your opinion: What are some of your favorite audiobooks?
TC: Yes. So, my favorites are actually the ones like mine that have the most immersive experiences. So, I love The Favorites. I love My Husband's Wife. That was so great, just came out. I loved Listen for the Lie. I had already written a draft of this book when I heard that for the first time, and I was like, "I have a comp! I have a comp!" Amy Tintera has been so amazing, and I am so delighted to be able to do an event with her in LA in March. I'm also listening to a book that I really enjoy right now, which is not as immersive but it is absolutely a wonderful story, called Before I Forget, which is such a heartwarming, just well-written, lovely story about a woman who goes home to take care of her father who has dementia.
TF: That sounds great. Some of these I've listened to, some I haven't. So, my to-be-listened-to list just got a little bit bigger.
TC: Good.
TF: What are you working on now?
TC: I am actually writing another genre blend. I do really like the thrillers that have love and the love stories that have thrills. I will continue doing that for as long as people let me, but I probably shouldn't say anything about what it's about yet because I haven't even pitched it to my editor yet.
TF: All right. Well, you're working on it. That's good. And you’ve got a lot of promotion ahead of you for This Story Will Save Your Life, which is exciting.
TC: It is very exciting.
TF: As such a big audiobook fan, did you know that you'd get to be a part of the program? What was it like recording your acknowledgements?
TC: Recording the acknowledgement section was a really moving experience for me because I love audiobooks so much and to get to be in that room and have those headphones on my head and then read these really special words, because I dedicated the book to my two sons and my husband, who had been watching this process the entire way. Reading that paragraph in particular just, I had to cry through it a couple of times before I got it right.
Then, right after that, they let me listen to my very first sample, and I cried when I heard that too, because hearing Julia read my name on my book was just the most wild experience of my life. And honestly, getting to have this interview is also a dream come true. I mean, wow. My book is going to be on Audible, where I get all of my books. How crazy is this?
TF: It's amazing. You wrote the perfect book for Audible. Tiffany, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such fun getting to know you, and this book is just a blast.
TC: Thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute delight to talk to you.
TF: Listeners, This Story Might Save Your Life by Tiffany Crum is available now on Audible.
