Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.
Yvonne Durant: Hello, listeners. Audible Editor Yvonne Durant here. Today I am going to be in conversation with Belle Burden, author of the riveting Strangers: A Memoir of a Marriage. Hello, Belle, thank you for being here today.
Belle Burden: Hi, Yvonne. I'm so happy to be here. It's quite an honor.
YD: I have to tell you, throughout the book I kept thinking of your name and wedding bells, sorry. While the spelling is different, the story is there. Did it ever cross your mind, your name is Belle and all this stuff happened?
BB: I didn't think of it in context of wedding bells, but I have received a lot of comments about my name in general, Belle and Burden, that it's a contrast in ideas, sort of a light and a heavy. I think there is sort of an interesting correlation with my story in that. It's also my grandmother's name. Her name was Flobelle, which was a lot to carry as a kid. Belle has been easier, but there's a lot of family history in my name, too. And also, of course, a return to my maiden name, which has felt really empowering to me.
YD: So, it's the beginning of COVID, your then-husband comes back, comes to the island, Martha's Vineyard, having worked in the City all week, right?
BB: We decided to quarantine there, when New York officially went into lockdown.
YD: But this was one particular weekend. Had you had plans for that weekend? Or it was going to be the lovely life that you all were having? The whiskey sours, time with the children. Sounded pretty nice and comfy to me.
BB: It was. We were supposed to go away for spring break, couldn't because of the lockdown, and decided to go to the Vineyard. And even though it was such a scary time for us and for the whole world, it was as nice as it could be. We felt very safe, very isolated. He was chopping wood for fires, making dinner and, yes, whiskey sours. We had them every night.
YD: And then came the phone call, the almighty phone call no man or woman wants to receive.
BB: I was actually in the middle of mopping the floor when I got the call. It was a number I did not recognize so I let it go to voicemail, and then I played it. And it was a man, he sounded nervous, and he said, "I'm trying to reach Belle. I'm sorry to tell you this, but your husband is having an affair with my wife."
YD: Okay. So, what advice would you give to someone who might have information on your life, or you would have information on someone else's life? Would you make that kind of call?
BB: I struggle with that. I feel like he threw a bomb into our life. I was a stranger to him, and I understand he was in pain and he wanted to make sure that I was aware of what was happening. I am now, looking back on it, grateful I got that phone call, and that this didn't extend, this private affair, didn't extend longer than it did without me knowing. But I would be hard-pressed to throw that bomb into someone else's life unless it was someone I knew very well and wanted to protect them.
"He asked me to say that our breakup was amicable, and I just couldn't do it."
YD: Yeah, it made me think that I would want that call if I had my wedding dress on and stuff, and the friend had some intel.
BB: Yeah.
YD: We'll talk, because I've been in that position, too, and I still haven't forgiven the person who made that call to me. You're a bigger person.
BB: I never spoke to him. I texted him once, he texted me back, and then I never heard from him again, and I never called him again. So, it's a strange feeling to have someone drop that bomb and then not have a relationship at all with them going forward.
YD: Let's talk about that sandwich. I think many women, I know I could, relate to your preparing the perfect sandwich after he had asked for one. And you curated the plate and the napkin, nice cloth napkin. The sandwich sounded delicious. I'm sure it looked beautiful. And I said, "Hmm, this is like the facelift of the situation." Some people get a facelift if their marriage is in trouble, but you made a sandwich.
BB: I did.
YD: It's like the facelift, "Maybe if I'm beautiful, he'll change his mind," but you had this wonderful sandwich happening.
BB: Yes. And it's funny that you say facelift because I'm one of those people that I have not done anything to my face. It's showing during this book tour. But that moment where he asked me to make a sandwich followed us having told our children about the divorce. And one of the kids ran downstairs so upset, and the other, my middle child, sat there looking at me and her father, mostly at her father. I had a moment where, as women, as a divorcing couple, you're told that the highest priority is to be kind to each other, to respect each other, to model for your kids that this is going to be a compatible relationship. So, I was thinking that and also thinking, "Go make your own sandwich. You used to live in this house. Why should I make you a sandwich when you've just walked out on me and our kids?"
But I ended up deciding to model what I thought was the right thing to model. As I'm making the sandwich, yes, I am thinking, "I would like him to regret what he is doing. I would like him to leave this house thinking, 'How could I leave this woman who makes such great sandwiches?'" And, of course, the sandwich represented so much else. I thought it represented having built this home, this life, this warmth and security together, and that he would leave thinking, "How could I give this up?" Even though in that moment I didn't really want this version of him to stay; I wanted him to feel that regret. But I think he ate the sandwich and didn't think about that at all.
YD: Listen, this is my own personal aside: I don't think I would've used all fresh ingredients. Anyway, you're a better person for sure. Soon after that, you quickly decided that you would not make yourself feel better by drinking.
BB: That's true.
YD: That took a lot, because a lot of people would grab a little glass of wine, can't hurt, something just to numb the pain. So, how did you come to that decision?
BB: I think it actually came from my stepmother, who appears throughout the book. She's a family therapist of four decades. I remember her telling me, maybe not in that moment, but earlier, that alcohol is a depressant and that you should only drink when you're celebrating something or happy. That had stuck with me. I had a sense that if I drank even a glass of wine it would increase the sadness. And then, like all things, I think it's habit, and as I went through this dark period, I did not have alcohol as a habit. I remember when I finally did have a drink, in July, and because I hadn't had any alcohol, I had a gin and tonic on my porch and completely fell asleep because I had not acclimated to alcohol. But I'm really glad I didn't drink. I think it would've put me farther into a hole at that point.
"No amount of privilege or money can protect you from heartbreak and from betrayal. It is a universal phenomenon."
YD: Back to your daughters. Your son was staying elsewhere, so you had the two girls with you. I have visualized, of course, I listened to the book. I cannot begin to imagine, still, how you held it together for these two girls who are now what, young women or soon to be?
BB: 18 and 21 now.
YD: It's like, you couldn't fall apart.
BB: I don't think I held it together well. I had a lot of trouble getting out of bed. My face was swollen. I thought I was hiding it from them, but I don't think I did a good job. My middle child, my older daughter, knew because she had read a notification on my iPad, and I didn't know that. So, she was going through that time, both of us pretending that she didn't know. And then my younger daughter ended up feeling upset that I hadn't told her during that month, because I was advised by a therapist not to. I think the better course would've been to tell them right away and continue to try and appear and make them dinner and all those things, but at least be honest about what was happening.
YD: You come from a long line of elegance and discretion. I remember seeing pictures of your grandmother, Babe Paley, and all of her chicness. I mean, I tie my Hermes scarf around my bag, but I just don't carry it off as she did. And that great smile she had. Your mother, I've met her at Darren [Walker]'s place just in passing, and she holds her own, too. Would you say, when talking about the women in your family, that you are the game changer?
BB: I think that's an interesting name for it. I would like to think that they are both such accomplished women in their own spheres. My grandmother was, as you said, extremely elegant, a trendsetter, also an accomplished artist. My mother had an incredible career as a city planner. And they both are very strong, forceful women. My grandmother has now passed away. But there is a legacy that I inherited of women staying quiet when men behave badly. My grandmother's husband and my mother's husbands and beau of several decades, both were unfaithful and both of them, I believe in an effort to be graceful, to be good, stayed very quiet about it and protected the man, to their detriment.
I'm not sure why, but from the very beginning I felt unable to lie about what was happening to me, to cover it up in any way. From the first moment, he asked me to say that our breakup was amicable, and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't lie about it. So, when I would run into people, I would say, "My husband left me. I don't know why. I'm in agony." I think that led to eventually writing about it and trying to change the pattern in my family, which will hopefully change the pattern for my children.
YD: During the course of this, you know how people speak to us? Did you hear your grandmother say anything? I know you had conversations with your mother, but did you recall anything about your grandmother that pushed you forward, that helped you in these moments?
BB: I am not a particularly spiritual or mystical person, but I really felt the presence of my grandmother. I also felt the presence of my father and my friend who had died. But my grandmother was a true presence, and she hadn't been since her death. I woke up feeling like she had spoken to me during the night, and I couldn't quite make sense of it, but I felt her worry for me and her hope that I would survive it. And as the year went by, I really felt her pushing me forward in claiming my space and in telling my story.
YD: Well, that's great. That's fortunate. So, as I was listening to the book, living with you in this wonderful whirlwind romance, it seemed like to me, in reliving the book and in thinking, was there ever a moment where you said, "Mm-hmm, that was a sign?"
BB: I think, as I look back, and I've spent a lot of time looking back, and certainly I do in the book, I still don't see red flags that our relationship would end the way that it did, that he would do what he did. I do see signs of his effort to protect himself financially from before the time that we got married, starting with the prenup and the change that he requested to the prenup. I willfully dismissed those signs because I wanted so much to trust my husband and I felt so deeply that he would take care of me, and that was a mistake, believing that, financially. I try to hold both things in my head, that he loved me, that he loved our family, that we were happy for a long period of time, and the fact that he protected himself financially to my detriment, and that it ended badly. I think all those things can be true at the same time.
"I have also returned to the thing that I loved most when I was a child and a teenager, which is writing."
YD: I've seen some comments on social media, and I shouldn't do this, but responded to one. And it seems that many think—or not many, there are more good than bad comments or negative comments—"Well, you know, another rich lady with her story." As if there's no pain, as if when you have money or privilege, life is easy, you can't experience pain. I know you never said, "I'll get over this. At least I'm not poor." What do you have to say to those people?
BB: Well, first, thank you for responding for me. I have seen that a bit, of people responding for me in comments. I really appreciate that. I tried to own the privilege question very explicitly. I agree with people that my story from beginning to end was easier because I had a cushion to help me get through it. I was able to hire a lawyer, for example. I completely agree that it was easier, but I hope that if those people read the book, they would find that there are some universal themes and that no amount of privilege or money can protect you from heartbreak and from betrayal. It is a universal phenomenon.
YD: Thank you for saying that, totally agree. Tell me about your experience with narrating the book?
BB: I was really nervous to do it. They asked me to record it. Penguin Random House, my editor, they felt that, for a memoir, it is much more powerful for readers to have the author narrate. I said, "I will not be good at this. I am not a public speaker. I'm shy. I think you should get a professional to do it." And they really pushed me, and I had a couple of sessions with the director, May, beforehand, and she tried to help me to be less flat. Then I went in and it was a really wonderful experience.
It was rigorous. It was three days, six hours each, and then another session to make corrections. They were both so kind, the director and the engineer, and I just kind of lived in the book for those three days again. I still thought, "They're going to call me and say, 'Thank you for trying, but it's no good.'" But I've been thrilled to hear that people like it and that some people have been saying my voice is soothing, which I never would've imagined. I don't love my voice. But now I'm so happy that I did it. And there was a lot of emotion to it, but I was surprised by when I felt very emotional. It was not really about the divorce. The time that I really broke down and they had to stop recording was talking about my father's death.
YD: Well, I liked what you did with the narration, and I did wonder at any point, did anybody want someone professional to do it? But to me, it came off as if, say we're good friends, and I said, "Hey, Belle, how are you? What's going on?" and then you just took off and you told me what happened. So that's how I felt.
BB: I'm so glad. That's what I wanted it to feel like. I wanted it to feel intimate and like I was confiding because that's what it felt like recording it.
YD: So, based on everything today in your life, the book and all that, I'd like you to finish a sentence. “I am...”
BB: I am brave, and I am a writer. I still can't believe that I have done this. I am a shy person, I'm a private person, but I am not only the writer of a book about my husband leaving me, which feels like a very humiliating story in some ways, I am traveling everywhere and telling people this story. I have been guided by the idea that it may help someone for me to do that, to be open and honest about what happened to me. And I have also returned to the thing that I loved most when I was a child and a teenager, which is writing. I stopped for 30 years, and it really took having my life fall apart for me to find that part of myself again.
YD: So, on some level, you have to thank him [laughs].
BB: I think sometimes the worst thing that we could think of happens. For me, other than death or illness, this is the worst thing. And now I am thankful. I never would've left my marriage, and it was so important to me, and I needed to have it imposed on me, and now I'm grateful for it.
YD: Wow. Thank you so much. In listening to you, I'm reliving things and learning and I'm feeling pretty empowered. I think with this memoir you've done a lot for so many, and we appreciate you.
BB: Thank you so much. That is music to my ears. I'm so grateful, and I'm so grateful to Audible for allowing me to do the recording, and I'm so glad people are listening to it.
YD: Oh, they are, they are. Listeners, you can find Strangers: A Memoir of a Marriage on Audible. Give it a listen. I promise you won't be disappointed.
Produced by Melissa Bendixen, edited by Phoebe Neidl, and engineered by Neil Baczek.
