Thank you so much Danielle, for your time, insight, expertise, and generosity in today’s episode. We join you in your commitment to increase knowledge about rape and sexual violation and provide language so people can name sexual violation for what it is.

Here is the link to Danielle’s website which has a link to her book, “Speaking About Rape: The Limits of Language in Sexual Violations.”

https://www.danielletumminiohansen.com/

Listed below are the quotes from Danielle’s book which were read and discussed in this episode:

"Those who listen to testimonies of those who experience sexual violations may be unaware that the linguistic choices they make may cause the person who shared so vulnerably to feel misrepresented or discredited, and thus cause a listener to inflict unintentional linguistic harm"

"...from recognizing that most human beings - even including those who perpetuate harm - are nuanced and complicated. A person can charm, coach your daughter's basketball team, be married and professionally successful, publicly advocate for women, and still pin down a girl on a bed against her will, cover her mouth, and attempt to have sex with her. This is possible, though many believe it is not."

" ... this was a classic "he-said-she-said" case of sexual harm. It would not go to trial. It would not receive a conviction, rendering any kind of public accusation an emotional and expensive experiment in futility. Moreover, our justice system operates in such a way that it punishes an individual for what is considered to be an individually perpetrated crime against another individual. However, if what I propose in this book is true - that sexual harm is a collective and not just an individual problem - then it follows that our individual system of retributive punishment requires re-examination, because meaningful accountability is needed on the part of both the person who perpetrated the harm and the wider society that enabled it"

: "...the definitional gaps that exist in matters of sexual harm will continue to function as forms of linguistic violence done to the individual by the collective. This linguistic violation becomes just one more component of the rape, one more way in which the person's body agency, and desire get disregarded, resulting in a toxic, symbiotic relationship between individuals and the collective in regard to the sexual harm done."

"One of the differences between a violating and non violating sexual encounter, then, is that the victimized party is denied co-authorship, so that the person who causes the violation alone writes the key plot points, overexerting narrative agency in a way that attempts to write the victimized person's story and have a lasting impact on that person's self. What separates those who inflict sexual harm from those who are on the receiving end of it, then, is that the latter group did not consent - irrespective of what they said or did not say during the encounter - to becoming the selves that the former tried to narrate them into being.”

Thank you so much Danielle, for your time, insight, expertise, and generosity in today’s episode. We join you in your commitment to increase knowledge about rape and sexual violation and provide language so people can name sexual violation for what it is.

This is the link to Danielle’s website which has a link to her book, “Speaking About Rape: The Limits of Language in Sexual Violations.”

https://www.danielletumminiohansen.com/

Listed below are the quotes from Danielle’s book which were read and discussed in this episode:

"What does it take to keep a person from naming her own sexual violation for what it is?"

"I recall a session with my own therapist where I was going to tell her about what had happened to me, but when it came time for me to actually explain, I found that I didn't have words to do it. I verbally froze, unable to speak, unable to say words like "rape" or "sexual assault" or even to offer a description of what had occurred. What I could do, though, was turn to music, the vocabulary of my childhood. I took out a compact disc player and turned on Samuel Barber's Agnus Dei, a devastating choral composition that begins as quietly as it is possible for singers to perform - pianissimo - and then escalates in tone and tension into a kind of collective vocal suffering. And what a singer seems to communicate in the performance of it is the same thing I was feeling: a profound sense of aloneness, of hopelessness, of fear. It said what I needed to say better than any narrative could have. My therapist seemed to understand, and after that, I found that I was able to talk about my experiences a little more freely."

"If you don't see yourself included in the language, then what is there to say? Because those who survived harm live within linguistic discourses, they may also self-gaslight, becoming unable to categorize harm that they might have named had they been exposed to different epistemic constructions of it, by which I mean that they might have thought differently about their own experiences if they had been exposed to different ways of constructing the knowledge related to it."

"Victimized individuals may, therefore, first imagine themselves as co-writers or, at least, ghost writers who had at least some agency or subjectivity in the encounter to maintain a sense of control or a sense of protection, or because they genuinely believe that's the most accurate representation of the event. Put more colloquially, they are prone to blame themselves. And while psychologists often label this as denial, I'm not sure it's always as simple as that - sometimes people are wrestling with the significance of events using competing ways of knowing (or epistemologies), which resolves into cognitive dissonance and the feeling that one is assembling a puzzle, the but the events that make up the pieces do not fit together to create a coherent picture. That's not denial. That's turmoil."

We are so grateful to "Esther" for taking the time and energy to raise their voice and help us continue to learn what it means to be everyday advocates. To read a fuller version of "Esther's" story, check out their blog at www.overturningtables.co.uk

You can also find @overturning_tables on Instagram

The email from the Head of Safeguarding referenced in the conversation can be found here: https://overturningtables.co.uk/email#abdbdd56-2cb9-481f-afd3-8b362b38d09d

Esther has also recommends a couple of resources:

https://survivorsgateway.london/

https://safespacesenglandandwales.org.uk/

And if you'd like to support an organization that has helped "Esther" and many others, consider Rape Crisis England and Wales https://www.justgiving.com/page/rape-crisis

We are so grateful to Alexa for her time and wisdom. We sincerely hope this empowers survivors considering court with the info they need to navigate that space with a little less harm. And that we ALL grow in our awareness in order to strategically support survivors in their attempts to find justice.

Here's a link to the 278 project "Survivor Safety Matters":
www.survivorsafetymatters.ca

Here's a link to the document where Alexa and her team have clearly laid out a comparison between the charter rights of victims vs the accused and how well those rights are executed in the court system:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12OKTkfJ9zmLfaQrcZd_wWAcRRXzYgaE4/view?usp=sharing

Here are the stats Alexa rattled off in case you want to take a closer look:
https://sexualassaultsupport.ca/statistics-sexual-violence-in-canada/

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/conflict-misconduct/sexual-misconduct/training-educational-materials/myths-facts.html

EVERYDAY ACTIVISM:
Canadians, please sign this petition to endorse action be taken to change 278 (which gives the accused access to victim's private records like counseling records, journals and such):

Non-Canadians, here is a link to a petition you can sign to communicate the same thing to decision makers:

Follow the movement on Instagram (liking and sharing the content boosts the volume): https://www.instagram.com/survivor_safety_matters/

Know someone in the media, government or with a connection to sexual assault centres? Make an introduction to the Survivor Safety Matters team: https://www.survivorsafetymatters.ca/contact

This episode shares the story of a survivor who experienced abuse in two different industries and a traumatic trip through the court system. The story (and therefore episode) is long, but there are obvious breaks along the way to pace your own processing as you listen. The survivor, "Cassandra*" has been incredibly generous to provide the following show notes and access to communicate with her if you'd like.

RELATED ARTICLES:

"Cassandra’s" complaint to the Federal Ombudsperson for Victim’s of Crime (June 25, 2023)

Links to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights - review of Bill S-12 Publication Bans:

Oct 5, 2023

: Morrell Andrews refers to the “Cassandra” PB issue at 17:05:48-59 and she has powerful words about what we still face in the system at 17:06:50-17:07:34.
https://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/20231005/-1/40002?mediaStartTime=20231005170218&mediaEndTime=20231005170905&viewMode=3&globalStreamId=14

Oct 17, 2023:

Dr. Ben Roebuck, the Federal Ombudsperson for Victims of Crime, presented at 17:04:10 to 17:04:41
– the part specifically about protecting therapeutic records and their plans for a systemic review.

https://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/10101/-1/40048?mediaStartTime=20231017170153&mediaEndTime=20231017170643&viewMode=3&globalStreamId=14

- the reference to Cassandra wishing she had known to speak to a lawyer before reporting to the police, which led to the defence subpoena of her records and her decision to stay the case:
https://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2/10101/-1/40048?mediaStartTime=20231017172607&mediaEndTime=20231017172655&viewMode=3&globalStreamId=14

Victims of SA can get 4 hours of free Independent Legal Advice:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/independent-legal-advice-survivors-sexual-assault

Thank you from the bottom of our hearts to Christie Penner Worden for returning to the podcast for some deeper learnings and a whole boatload of wisdom.

Some items related to today's themes:
Better Together: How Women & Men Can Heal the Divide and Work Together to Transform the Future by Danielle Strickland

Christie's 4 Warning Signs/Flags: confusion, chaos, distraction & destruction

Christie's Steps for Abuse Prevention:
1) Collect warning signs as you go along (know you unique flags)
2) Pre-Decide you have options (determine now that you have agency)
3) Visualize acceptable options (imagine your authentic self using your agency to respond to abuse)

A HUGE thank you to Alexa Barkley for her encouragement and wisdom. She has provided some resources and references that you might find helpful:

Here is the article that tells a few more/different details of Alexa's story

Alexa's correspondence with the Canadian Baptists of Ontario & Quebec (CBOQ)demonstrates very typical behavior for organizations that are lacking trauma-informed care principles and are oriented around a desire to protect the institution instead of orienting around making the situation right. This correspondence also demonstrates the effort so many survivors go to in order to 1) be heard, 2) be grace-filled, and 3) use their voice to educate decision-makers. It is nothing short of heroic.

Jaymie Friesen of the Mennonite Central Committee is part of Alexa's circle of support and her letter to the CBOQ is a powerful demonstration of truth-telling and holding decision-makers accountable for their responsibilities. It is educational and not abusive, but it pulls no punches. The Mennonites also have an Abuse Prevention site that is incredibly insightful and helpful. It demonstrates incredible transparency in naming abusers who have had credible claims brought against them. Well done, MCC.

Into Account is a powerhouse USA-based advocacy organization that Alexa referenced & that Hagar's Voice highly recommends for survivors seeking advocacy or decision-makers seeking guidance.

#ChurchToo: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing is a resource Alexa mentioned. She also recommends You Are Your Own – A Reckoning with the Religious Trauma of Evangelical Christianity & Pure – Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free & Putting Trials on Trial – Sexual Assault and the Failure of the Legal Profession Each of these books is available in multiple formats.

Those interested in the connection between purity culture and abuse might consider the thus-themed season of the Reclaiming My Theology podcast by Brandi Miller. This season ran from Nov 2022 through May 2023 and is an in-depth autopsy of the theologies behind the purity movement and the ramifications of it still playing out today on more than just gender dynamics. This podcast can be found on all major platforms.

If you'd like to connect with Alexa, you can find her on Instagram @alexa.m.barkley or Facebook as alexa.barkley.7

Thank you so much, Lori, for your time, insight, courage and leadership in today’s episode! We join you in your calls to action, listeners, let’s:

1. Contact Saddleback & call for Andy to stand down (@saddlebackchurch or https://saddleback.com/visit/about/contact-us)
2. Email Filipe at Echo (fsantos@echo.church) to release all NDAs or sign the petition Lori created that has over 1500 signatures already!
3. Use public channels (#southernbaptist) to call on the SBC to let women speak (or email them at https://www.sbc.net/contact/)

Below are links to references Lori made in the episode:

Her story as reported in the Roys Report with access to more articles on Andy Wood, Rick Warren, Saddleback and the SBC.

Lori and her husband Jason Adams-Brown share their story in long-form on Lori’s podcast “World of Difference” (Part 1 of 6)

Two (of many) sides of Andy Wood: opening to a sermon given in FL (May 2021) while pastoring in CA.

Book: A Church Called TOV

D.A.R.V.O. stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse, Victim & Offender. More information is readily available with a DARVO Google search

Hillsong Expose TV Series

Shiny, Happy People Documentary on the Duggars

Christianity Today podcast on Mark Discoll “Rise & Fall of Mars Hill”